Earnings Labs

Credicorp Ltd. (BAP)

Q4 2017 Earnings Call· Tue, Feb 6, 2018

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Excuse me, everyone. We now have our speaker in conference. Please be aware that each of your lines is in a listen-only mode. At the conclusion of today's presentation, we will open the floor for questions. [Operator Instructions] It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Credicorp's Chief Financial Officer, Fernando Dasso. Mr. Dasso, you may begin.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Good morning, and welcome to Credicorp's conference call on our earnings results for the fourth quarter and full year 2017. Before we review Credicorp's performance, I would like to take a few minutes to look at the Peruvian macro environment. 2017 registered slower growth due to the El Niño Phenomenon, the LavaJato and political noise. We estimate that real GDP growth will fluctuate at 2.4% while domestic demand will only expand 1.3% in 2017. Looking at 2018, we decided to reduce our GDP growth forecast from 4.2% to 3.5% mainly due to political uncertainty and risks in the construction sector. Nonetheless, 2018 will be better than 2017 as we expect GDP and domestic demand would grow around 3.5%. Our forecast for 2018 is driven by the following first factors; first, our favourable international environment as you can see in chart 1, the IMF recently made an upward revision to the world’s GDP growth forecast for 2018 from 3.7% to 3.9%, which is the highest print [ph] in seven years. Second, as chart two shows the price of copper stands around US$3.2 per pound and has increased around 60% compared to the two years ago. Moreover, the prince of zinc currently stands near maximum level for the last 10 years. Third, as you can see on chart three, financial conditions are positive as the money for Peruvian debt has remained strong, and sovereign yields have fallen considerably since last year. On the local front, countercyclical monetary and fiscal policies will boost economic activity. The Central Bank lowered its reference rate a 100 basis points in 2017 and an additional 25 bps reduction was taken in January 2018. We expect another 25 basis points with current 2018 and then inflation is likely to gradually increase, and we foresee end of the period…

Operator

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Jason Mollin with Scotiabank.

Jason Mollin

Analyst · Scotiabank

Hi. Thank you very much. Morning, Fernando. My first question is on the profitability trend that we saw in the fourth quarter. We saw very good bottom line and very strong return on equity. But if we strip out the gain from the sale and now in the quarter on the back of the higher provisions and lowered NIM we saw the recurring, I would call it, ROE decline with 16.5%, I just want to see if you can give us some color here? Clearly you had a good bottom line. You had this gain. You made some provisions in the fourth quarter and you're talking about is sustainable ROE at least 2018 in the 18% range and even higher following your investments? If you can just give us some color on that? And secondly, if you can talk about potential regulatory changes for Peruvian banks, if there is some expectations that the bank has for this year or next that would be interesting to hear? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you, Jason. First, on your second question on the regulatory changes, we actually don’t foresee anything important coming not only in terms of banking regulation, but financial services regulation as a whole. As we have talked many times, we have a very close relationship with regulators, with everyone, the central bank, their superintendency. We are all time ruled and they have lots of information of ours. We have a very constructive relationship. We don’t see something important coming in terms of regulation. Then on your first question, yes, we had our one-time item in our fourth quarter. In general, we believe that the numbers for our fourth are recurring numbers are more or less where we should be next year. As we mentioned, the tailwinds are really what is happening to our loan book. We begin to see some more appetite for investment in a business community, both foreign and local, so that is good. Then in terms of our loan portfolio, I think that our underlying trend show that we are doing much better in terms of the health of it. And we will continue to stress our efficiency with the exception as we mentioned of this transformation project which we can discuss later on. So, we see a better year in 2018. That’s at least our focus for BCP and you should expect that.

Jason Mollin

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you very much.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you, Jason.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Philip Finch with UBS.

Philip Finch

Analyst · UBS

Hi. Fernando. Thank you for the presentation. My question first of all is regarding your capital position. Given your assumptions on loan growth and ROEs how much capital do you think you could generate this year in 2018 through retain earnings. And link to that, given your common equity tier 1 ratio was 11.8% [ph] in Q4 last year. How much scope do you have to return more capital to shareholders? And my second question is linked to all of this. You just gave ROE guidance for 2018 at 17.5% to 18.5%, what capital levels are you assuming behind this guidance? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · UBS

As we mentioned, when we talk about our first quarter at 10.5% common equity tier 1, what we have decided also it that within our risk appetite we will let owner subsidiary provide dividends to the holding companies in March. We won’t keep any excess capital at our subsidiaries level. All the capital will go – as I mentioned after we comply with all the risk appetite rules, internal rules we will provide that capital to the holding companies. And then as we mentioned at the holding companies level we will keep a fund [Indiscernible] of around 10% of total capital and above that we will pay dividends to our shareholders. That had been already decided in our board. I don’t know if I answered your questions with that answer.

Philip Finch

Analyst · UBS

Okay. Thank you. And what about the ROE guidance please [ph], Fernando?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · UBS

Which guidance, ROE?

Philip Finch

Analyst · UBS

The ROE guidance you gave 17.5% to 18.5%?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · UBS

Yes. As I said, our ROE guidance for the year is between 17.5% and 18.5%, however we think that our sustainable ROE after we finished with all this transformation effort, which is a huge one should probably hover around 19%.

Philip Finch

Analyst · UBS

Okay. Thank you, Fernando.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · UBS

Thank you, Philip.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Ernesto Gabilondo with Bank of America/Merrill Lynch.

Ernesto Gabilondo

Analyst

Hi. Good morning, Fernando and thanks for taking my call. A couple of questions from my side, the results, when I look to the bottom line, that it was favoured by the sale of the shares by the reversal of excess provision related to the improvement of your ATMs process, what should be the level, the recurring level of net income in 2017? Also in terms of your cost risk, I think you’re guiding 1.6%, 1.7%. And I think you stood at 1.7% in 2017. So, what are the reasons behind to expect a lower cost of risk even with a strategy to expand portfolio into higher yield products? And also a follow-up with your ROE guidance, why is it lower than the reported in 2017? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you, Ernesto. I didn’t get your last question, but I will be answering the cost of risk one. As we have mentioned many times we have been working extensively in terms of managing risk especially a retail risk. We have worked along the whole process meaning [Indiscernible] all the policies, back and forth assessment and experiment with what we’ve done there. We’ve also work on the collections part extensively and these have been done for many years already bringing not only people from abroad that is helping us there, but actually strengthening our models which we feel you’ll never finish with it. But we already still very comfortable of tools and process we have. So probably think to expand a little bit on the risk that we are willing to take. And then it’s proving not only interesting but fruitful. So we would probably continue to do that in the near future and this is [Indiscernible] to learn. Therefore we will continue [Indiscernible] but we’ve done at the BCP levels, we have subsidiaries, we’ve been questioned also with this particular answer, we’re seem probably both the occupancy in the Congress [Indiscernible] and we will continue to do that. So that’s why we feel that the underline trends [Indiscernible] including day by day. In this [Indiscernible] that economic situation [Indiscernible] in the beginning of our presentation. Then given with your last question [Indiscernible].

Ernesto Gabilondo

Analyst

Yes. My last question was about the ROE guidance of 17.5%, 18.5%, I think it would be lower than the reported in 2017?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

I’m sorry but I – we will transformation in second. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we will continue with this teleconference in just one moment. Please continue to hold. Ladies and gentlemen we now our speaker back in conference Mr. Dasso, you may continue

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Ernesto, I’m waiting for your last question.

Ernesto Gabilondo

Analyst

Yes, sure. A follow-up in your ROE guidance which was 17.5% to 18.5%, I think it’s a little bit lower than the reported in 2017. So I just want to know the assumptions behind?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Well, as we mentioned we have – actually we’re working with this transformation of project. What is really a transformation? Our client, we need back to serve them differently. This is not only in terms of the channel that they approach, but in terms of a whole series that we write in, this is changing very fast. We are investing importantly on that, we’ve last invested around 71 million, and this year we’ll probably invest double of that figure. That should be happening during that next two, three years, we have begun at the BCP level, but you’ll continue at the subsidiaries level. We need to do that. This is a moment to do it. We have very low efficiency ratio numbers. And that’s why we are receiving that pressure for this year 2017 and 2918. But then we should after finishing the book of this project we should continue, we should resume the ROE number early that will hovered probably around 19%, but definitely with better service provided to our clients. That’s really our goal.

Ernesto Gabilondo

Analyst

Okay, understood. And so with this project how will be the amount in 2018? And what should be the OpEx throughout this year?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Well, the amount for this specific project should hover around 160 or 180 million soles and we have definitely – I don’t have the calculator, but an impact on the operating expenses.

Ernesto Gabilondo

Analyst

Okay. Thank you very much Fernando.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you, Ernesto.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Carlos Macedo with Goldman Sachs.

Carlos Macedo

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

Thanks. Good morning, gentlemen, Fernando. One first question, a quick clarification than a question, when your guidance for average balance outstanding 6% to 8%, is that the average balance for the year or is that average balance for fourth quarter over fourth quarter?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

It is for the year.

Carlos Macedo

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

So basically you’re saying the average balance for 2018 will be 6% to 8% higher than the average balance for 2017. And in fact when you look at end-to-end you might have much stronger growth if you’re basically doing a lot faster – growing a lot faster than the year and would that be the right read?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

You are right.

Carlos Macedo

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

Okay. So, within that range, I know you gave some color that retail should grow faster than wholesale. Could you give us a little bit more color, I mean, are we talking double digits maybe in the past retail loans have grown at three times GDP and you have 3.5% for GDP. Is that something that is in the realm of possibilities?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

We feel that the engine should probably be Mibanco, SME-Pyme and those should be around say 11%, 12%. We don’t see those 20% figures that we saw in the past. So those would be the engines, I mean, SME-Pyme, Mibanco and maybe a little bit on the consumer part that could be around 9%. Then Bolivia should continue growing, Bolivia will probably have a good year, because the election is in 2019, so year before elections usually are better in terms of what the government does to try to become re-elected. So that should improve numbers in Bolivia. And then basically in wholesale what we really need is investment. And for investment to resume growth we will need to have better situation, better business sentiment for people to invest, and I’m not only talking about the huge project, the huge mining infrastructure on whatever project, but also all the projects are under taking by middle market company and this type of entity.

Carlos Macedo

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

Okay, perfect. Thank you so much.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Goldman Sachs

Thank you, Carlos.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Tito Labarta with Deutsche Bank.

Tito Labarta

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

Thanks, Fernando for the call. My first was on the – just if you can give an update on the political environment, you mentioned in the beginning that you did lower your GDP growth forecast for this year. Do you think the worst is behind it? Could it be more noise? Could it be more impact on growth and infrastructure? If you can just give an update on that would be helpful. And then, my second question, just looking at the efficiency ratio which in the base – at the low end of the base scenario, you just like to be stable. Just wanted to get some assumptions behind that give loan growth of 6% at the level and roughly stable margin, does that mean expenses should grow around 6% this year. What about fee income – fees were good in the quarter but only up 4% on the full year, what kind of expectations should we expect for fees in that guidance that’s your getting? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

Tito, we didn’t get your last question, but I’ll begin with a political environment. In the political arena we expect more turbulence, we expect more noise. We talk about their important tailwinds on the economy, because the world is doing better. There is some volatility now in the stock exchanges, but the underlying numbers are telling us that world specially, the countries are doing better. That is what the IMF is telling US ourselves that there is a common view. So that really helps. The commodity prices are doing well. They are supposed to even improve a little bit during this year. So our macro numbers are doing well. If we talk about the trade balance, if we talk about the current account balance, if we talk about our reserve inflation, I won’t one by one, but all of them are doing well. So the economy is there with political growth. Unfortunately the political side is not healthy. We have lots of friction between Congress and the administration. We have a very weak government right now. And we don’t know exactly what’s going to happen in the next months. But, yes the business sentiment is receiving somewhat influence from what is happening on the political side. I think that this is not behind, but it will stay while amongst while these politicians get. That’s what we can say until now. Then on the efficiency ratio as I mentioned I didn’t get exactly a question, but what I can tell you that we have realized that we are – we still need to go further down in terms of efficiency. And we have a clear commitment inside our management and inside – not only BCP, but all the other companies that we should continue pressing, pushing further in terms of efficiency. Things are changing importantly on the financial service. We need to have better numbers to be able to compete in the future. We will continue pressing further. We still have the important projects to undertake what’s going to happen with IT. We are – we’re planning it, we will probably rebuild all our IP in the coming three, five years. We are actually understanding what we do with our branch network not only at BCP but other subsidiaries. So they are plants there and we should probably go further down. I don’t know these two particular next years will be those years because of what we’ve talked about the transformation effort but we will continue pushing further around in terms of provisions [ph].

Tito Labarta

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

Thanks. That’s helpful. Just couple of follow-ups. And part of my question was also trying to understand some of the assumptions behind the stable efficiency. So just given 6% loan growth and roughly stable margin does that -- is it safe to assume that expenses should grow around 6%? And what about -- would does that mean for fee income -- fees grew on 4% last year. Is that the kind of growth we should continue to expect in fees?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

What I’m trying to – as we mention growth in loan book by 6% to 8% and in terms of the other income we should probably be hover around between 4% and 5%. I didn’t get your question completely because the communication is very bad, but if that is what you asked maybe those are the answers.

Tito Labarta

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

So, almost I’ll try to ask one more time if I can. So the 4% to 5% I think that’s for the fee income or another income which make sense. And then does that imply roughly 6% expense growth given you expect stable efficiency and the lower end of your guidance?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

Yes. That is accurate.

Tito Labarta

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Deutsche Bank

Thank you, Tito.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Carlos Rivera with Citigroup.

Carlos Rivera

Analyst · Citigroup

Hi. Good morning everyone and thanks Fernando for the presentation. My first question is regarding the competitive outlook particularly towards the end of the year. Loan growth, we didn't see much acceleration in terms of the average daily balance, but if we look at the end of your balance there were significant quarter over quarter growth. So just wondering if this was the result of the market growing faster towards the end of the year what’s more probably Credicorp being more aggressive and trying to regain that market share? That is my first question. And my second question is related to the outlook for the cost of risk. I understand all the improvements that you have made, but do you just see any risk for higher cost of risk related to the construction companies. I mean we’ve hear some articles that there was an interview from one of your peers saying that banks have stopped issuing guarantees for many construction companies given the risks related to corruption investigations that could affect their liquidity. So are you concerned at all in at this point and if you could share without your exposure to construction companies? Thank you very much.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Citigroup

Thank you. On your first question Carlos competitive outlook, yes, as you know this year has been a year of low growth. And when that happens competition gets stronger. We have in the year. And we have endured that during the year. The good thing was that at the end of the year things began to improve, the business sentiment began to move faster and yes, the market began to grow faster especially in cost [ph]. But on the other hand we also decided in quarter that we want to be more competitive, more aggressive in the year, so we want to be more different, if the market moving faster and we being more aggressive. Then in terms of cost of risk and construction companies we have – that growth is not behind, it is far from being behind. We are in the middle of it. Unfortunately it also deals with political issues, so we – I mean, this is not only our banks but all the other competitors are working together to try to see what would be the solution for this. But that won’t happen fast. We will continue – I mean, being assessing the situation day by day I’m trying to understand what would be the way out, but I don’t see things happening soon. We still need the Congress and many institutions trying to get out of this problematic situation.

Carlos Rivera

Analyst · Citigroup

Okay. Any exposure level you could share with us or given that it is not an immediate impact you don’t see major risks for this year?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Citigroup

We don't share these figures with the market. What I can tell you is that we've been working extensively on [Indiscernible] for years and now, we feel comfortable [Indiscernible] with the provisions, but [Indiscernible] what ravels in the coming months.

Carlos Rivera

Analyst · Citigroup

Okay. Thank you very much Fernando for the answers.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Yuri Fernandes with JPMorgan.

Domingos Falavina

Analyst · JPMorgan

Hi, Fernando, this is actually Domingo here for the question -- for taking the call. I noticed a significant change in speech in the press release, more constructive tone towards the growth. So, my question is what exactly is driving that and also the loan acceleration? More specifically, what kind of approval rate did you have most of 2017 or in the first half? And what's the kind of approval rate for new loan applications you are having now or in early 2018? And if it's not the approval rate of that change, what exactly -- what's the strategy that's basically driving some of these changing view?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · JPMorgan

Thank you, Domingos. We talk a lot non-acceleration. We need to go piece-by-piece. We see what is happening in quarter. As I mentioned, business sentiment improved during the second half of the year and we also were more aggressive on lending. The situation got a little better that helped. Then if we go to retail, as you know, the last content [ph] of the year is very important in retail, especially in SME, but also in consumer and we took advantage of that. And we also took advantage of that with [Indiscernible] improving our rate. [Indiscernible] I won't be talking about approval rates here, [Indiscernible] but yes, we feel much more comfortable with the way of managing risk that we have, risk of understanding our clients, taking advantage of that. And that is what we can tell you for retail portfolio. Then Mibanco, Mibanco has been doing fine during the whole year. It was grown by around 10% in 2017. We continue to see good figures there. We understand the market and have really are in a best position to continue growing. Bolivia also had a good year. So, in general, we see fee mix improving, that's why we are talking about that 6% to 8% growth in the portfolio next year.

Domingos Falavina

Analyst · JPMorgan

Okay. Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · JPMorgan

Thank you, Domingos.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Alonso Garcia with Credit Suisse.

Alonso Garcia

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Good morning everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. First, just to clarify, is the timeframe for this plan -- engagement plan to be concluded at the next couple of years, I mean, 2018 and 2019? Or can it extend to 2020 or further? And also related to this, I was wondering how do you feel in terms of the core digital capabilities of BCP vis-à-vis the market? I mean is it plan intended to put you ahead of peers or you are [Indiscernible] catch up with the rest of the peers? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Thanks Alonso. On your second question, on our competitive position against the market, I continue to think that we have a very good position, a leading position to try to actually lead the market because of the market contraction we were not [Indiscernible] competing in terms of pricing. But we continue to feel that we have a very good understanding of the market and of our clients. We have been [Indiscernible] working on data analytics on ways of really approaching [Indiscernible] very strong in terms of our competitive capabilities and much stronger than in the past. We've been talking about modeling in terms of risk, but we are also modeling in terms of pricing. We are also very much aware of how should we approach and reach our clients with better offers. So, I think that our position is really very strong impact. We are actually willing to take advantage of that in the coming months.

Alonso Garcia

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Perfect. And sorry, just again, the timeframe for this investment plan concluding next year or cam it extend to 2020 as well?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Credit Suisse

I don't get you. I'm sorry Alonso.

Alonso Garcia

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Would you--

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Were you asking about how many years will the transformation take?

Alonso Garcia

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Exactly.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Okay. I think that you never finish with these processes, but I think, the bulk of it will take the next two years at BCP, and then maybe, one or two more years in all the other subsidiaries. It's a very comprehensive process and it is titled a very transformational one. We are there learning day-by-day, it's not really that we know exactly where should we be heading. But we are learning and we -- our clients are telling us I like this, don't like the other. So, that's a continued process. Two years for the bulk of it we've undertaken.

Alonso Garcia

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Perfect. Thank you very much.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Credit Suisse

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Sergei [Indiscernible].

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Yes, good morning. Thanks for the call. Just a couple of questions. The first one on the interest rate trajectory in Peru as well as your net interest margins. If I heard you correctly, you said that you expect another 25 basis points cut in 2018. Could you just outline what's driving the Central Bank thinking there, given that the economy seems to be recovering in a stimulus measure or what was driving that? And then related question with that as in the back of that sort of rate decrease, you still -- and your NIM has compressed obviously in the last quarter of this year but you're forecasting an expansion and part of it would be due to business mix, but would that be enough -- your business mix change, would that be enough to offset the competition in wholesale as well as rate decrease? That's the first question. The second one is, which I'm surprised you didn't mention is, is there anything on IFRS 9 that you guys see in terms of cost of risk and capital? And is IFRS 9 even be implemented in Peru, I guess, the first question? and if so, how would it impact Credicorp? Thanks.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you, Sergei. If we talk about larger trajectory of the reference rate in soles, yes, it has come down since April by 125 basis points already. It now sits at 3%. We plan the Central Bank to bring it down again, we don't know if it will be February, but basically probably March by 25 basis points. They are doing this, we feel, especially because the inflation is under control. Now, our inflation is 1.3% that is really below the target of the Central Bank, which is 2%. [Indiscernible] the date, I mean, February, March, April, last year, where months of high inflation. So, the rate is really high. So, it will probably be lower than 1% in March or April and then, it will resume growth -- the inflation and it will probably end the year at 2.5%. So, there is room in terms of inflation to bring it down. And also because we all feel that growth is not -- I mean GDP growth is not where it should be. They could bring some more stimulus there -- monitory stimulus, it will definitely help. And we feel that that's really on their minds not our [ph]. [Indiscernible] then, if that's going to affect our NIM, we don't feel that it will affect our NIM [Indiscernible] 25 bps. We are competition especially than last year, I think we report or knew where they are. And then, on your third question, the IFRS 9 impact, that impact is really for this year. As you know, it is actually for that specific hit will be actually the first day of this year. We've already calculated. As you know, we are a very conservative institution and we have our positions very strong before it. So, we don't feel that it will move the needle. We already have the numbers. We cannot really disclose those numbers yet. But you should keep in mind that it won't be an important effect on our balance sheet this year. The balance sheet because it goes directly into our capital, it doesn't go through the P&L.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Right. But in terms of the cost of risk guidance that you gave, which is 1.6% to 1.7%, does that incorporate the IFRS 9 sort of adjustments or is it fully baked in the expected loss model that they require?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

It includes those calculations already.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Got it. Okay, great. Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Scotiabank

Thank you, Sergei.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Carlos Gomez with HSBC New York.

Carlos Gomez

Analyst · HSBC New York

Hello, good morning. A very interesting question. I wanted to know the level of tax that you paid in your sale of NL [ph] shares -- tax on NL [ph] shares? Second, could you tell us what impact, if any, the U.S. tax reform is going to have on you and what your expected tax rate is going to be for the future? And finally, if I may ask, can you give us some details about what the transformation project involves? Three, four years ago, you already went through an extensive review of your expenses. You have done for [Indiscernible] in the past, what is it exactly that you're focusing on right now? What actions have you taken? What is changing at the bank? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · HSBC New York

First, on your tax question, you ask around the tax on which shares.

Walter Bayly

Analyst · HSBC New York

NL shares.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · HSBC New York

NL shares. On the NL construction, we didn't have to pay any taxes because of the regulations. If those shares are traded at the New York Stock Exchange and provided there one or two pieces, we need to pay any taxes. So, that was the case for those shares. [Indiscernible]

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · HSBC New York

Yes. And then, on tax reforms -- the U.S. tax reforms, I don't know -- I mean, we are assessing what could happen, but I don't see any important influence on that regulation, on that tax reform in our business. And the third one was the transformation project. It involves changing the way not only in which we approach and serve our clients in many ways, meaning, what are the channels that we will provide to them -- and the different mixture of channels that we will provide to them, what are the products that we will provide to them, how are we going to approach them? Imagine, our clients are not comparing us to our neighboring environment to our competitor. They are actually comparing us with the service they receive from the Amazons or the [Indiscernible] of the world. And that's really what financial institutions should be concentrated and trading and that's a complete change of mind here. It involves a very comprehensive effort in terms of culture, of how should we at BCP and our subsidiaries behave towards our clients and towards our teamwork. It's a complete change that I have to tell you [Indiscernible] as we mentioned before.

Carlos Gomez

Analyst · HSBC New York

Okay. Thank you very much. I guess, at some point, you probably want to expand about -- I said, at some point you probably want to expand to what has changed, how you would think before and how do that now? Can I go back to the tax return, ask you once more what your long-term expected tax rate will be if you can reconfirm?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · HSBC New York

Our tax rate indeed and our income tax in Peru is 29.5%. Depending on the instruments we have and the way we manage our business, we hover around 26%, 27% every year. We expect that to continue.

Carlos Gomez

Analyst · HSBC New York

Thank you very much.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · HSBC New York

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Joswilb Vega with Integra.

Joswilb Vega

Analyst · Integra

Thank you. Good morning Fernando and thank you for taking my question. I would like to know about the exposure to the construction sector here in Peru and the companies involved in the construction scandal? How difficult and expensive is to get the bank letter for these companies so that they can participate in the building process? I mean, are you tightening the credit lines for these companies or making the loans more expensive? Thank you.

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Integra

As you know this has been recent news, these construction companies. We are assessing the position that we have with this client. And yes, we are trying to understand what is really the way forward with all the [Indiscernible] with all the institutions as well. I cannot be really specific or detailed in terms of this because we are in the middle of the problem. But what I can tell you is that we are putting all our efforts with the authorities on banking institutions to try to understand what is the way out and to make it the best effort in terms of the country because we really need construction to be an engine for our economy.

Joswilb Vega

Analyst · Integra

Okay. And about the condition of to the current [Indiscernible] to these companies, I mean, what is going to be your position? Are you going to help them to win more business or are you going to make more -- tighten the credit lines?

Fernando Dasso

Analyst · Integra

We -- our approach is always to try to help our clients. On this particular situation, we will always go case-by-case, on a case-by-case basis, understanding what is the new project? Why should they need facility? And we will make decisions as we have done in the past.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to over to Credicorp's CEO, Mr. Walter Bayly, for closing remarks.

Walter Bayly

Analyst · HSBC New York

Good morning to all of you and thank you very much for joining us in this call. 2017 was quite a disappointing year. We started the year with a very positive outlook to the extent that we had a new administration that had a series of good initiatives and a view to where to take the country, which was not similar to what the main opposition party had in mind as well. Unfortunately, all these failed to materialize and political [Indiscernible] amongst the political forces really did not create a very positive scenario for growth. On top of that, we started the year with El Nino and then, quite rapidly the Lava Jato case came up, which paralyzed and rendered useless a quite detailed plan that the new administration had regarding infrastructure investments. So, it was quite a disappointing year from that point of view. Nevertheless, we have not been idle. We have been working diligently inside organizations. We continue with our transformation process at the bank, at the insurance company, and at Mibanco. Obviously, the bank is slightly ahead, but the other institutions are equally going with their own programs. And we specifically decided that we did not want to stop investing or doing this transformation, knowing quite well that in the short run, this would affect profitability, return on equity, and cost to income ratios. But in the long run, we thought that the wise decision was to continue going forward with our long-term plans. Not only have we been working on the transformation, but a lot of our management practices, streamlining risk management, particularly on the retail side, which has had given us good results, our collection process [Indiscernible], which Fernando mentioned and pricing techniques. So, we have been working on improving our management skills quite diligently.…

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's teleconference. You may now disconnect.