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Commercial Metals Company (CMC)

Q4 2025 Earnings Call· Thu, Oct 16, 2025

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Hello and welcome everyone to the Fiscal 2025 Fourth Quarter and Year End Earnings Call for Commercial Metals Company. Joining me on today's call are Peter Matt, Commercial Metals Company's President and Chief Executive Officer, and Paul Lawrence, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Today's materials, including the press releases and supplemental slides that accompany this call, can be found on Commercial Metals Company's Investor Relations website. Today's call is being recorded. After the company's remarks, we will have a question and answer session and we'll have a few instructions at that time. I would like to remind all participants that today's discussion contains forward-looking statements, including with respect to economic conditions, effects of legislations and trade actions, U.S. Steel import levels, construction activity, demand for finished steel products, expected capabilities, benefits, costs, and timeline for construction of new facilities, the benefits and impact of the pending acquisitions of Foley Products Company and Concrete the company's operations, the company's strategic growth plan, its anticipated benefits, legal proceedings, company's future results of operations, financial measures, and capital spending. These statements reflect the company's beliefs based on current conditions, but are subject to risks and uncertainties. The company's earnings release, most recent annual report on Form 10-Ks, and other filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission contain additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in forward-looking statements. Except as required by law, Commercial Metals Company does not assume any obligation to update, amend, or clarify these statements. Some numbers presented will be non-GAAP financial measures, and reconciliations for such numbers can be found in the company's earnings release, supplemental slide presentation, or on the company's website. In addition, today's presentation includes financial information that gives effect to the consummation of pending acquisitions. Pro forma financial information is presented for illustrative purposes only and is based on available information and certain assumptions and estimates that the company believes are reasonable. The pro forma financial information may not necessarily reflect what the company's results of operations and financial position would have been had the transactions occurred during the periods discussed or what the company's results of operations and financial position will be in the future. Unless stated otherwise, all references made to year or quarter end are references to the company's fiscal year or fiscal quarter. And now for opening remarks and introductions, I will turn the call over to Peter.

Peter Matt

Management

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our conference call. You've likely already seen, we have a lot of ground to cover today. First, we are excited to share more about Commercial Metals Company's agreement to acquire Foley Products Company, after which we will cover our fourth quarter performance, fiscal 2025 strategic progress, and our outlook. Before opening the call to questions. To supplement today's commentary, we have posted two presentations to our IR website, one for the Foley acquisition and one detailing our fourth quarter and fiscal 2025 results. Starting with Foley, we are thrilled to add a best-in-class business with industry-leading margins to Commercial Metals Company's portfolio. In combination with our recently announced acquisition of CPMP, the addition of Foley will create a high-quality large-scale platform in the strategically attractive precast industry, greatly enhancing Commercial Metals Company's financial profile and growth over the long term. I am confident that the acquisition of Foley will increase our value proposition for customers and shareholders alike, extending our growth runway and marking another major milestone as we execute our strategy. Slide four of the acquisition presentation provides a brief overview of Foley. Since its founding by Frank Foley over forty years ago, the company has grown into the largest regional precast producer in The United States, with 580 employees in 18 plants across nine states. Foley has a strong track record of growth and best-in-class margin performance, which is a testament to their talented management team and the industry-leading practices they have developed. We are very excited to welcome them to the Commercial Metals Company family and look forward to collaborating on Foley's continued success. As you can see on Slide seven, the addition of Foley in combination with our recently announced acquisition of CPMP creates immediate scale for Commercial…

Paul Lawrence

Management

Thank you, Peter, and good morning to everyone on the call. I will start by saying I share the excitement and optimism both about this transaction and the strategic momentum we have achieved at Commercial Metals Company over the last year. The acquisition of Foley in combination with CPMP is transformative to Commercial Metals Company's financial profile. As shown on Slide 11, the creation of the new Precast platform meaningfully shifts the composition of Commercial Metals Company's earnings, increases margin levels and free cash flow capabilities, and importantly should reduce earnings and cash flow volatility in our business. The sum of CPMP and Foley representing our Precast platform is expected to generate approximately $250 million of adjusted EBITDA in calendar 2025, before growth and synergies with EBITDA margins in excess of 34%. This compares to Commercial Metals Company's core EBITDA margin of 10.7% and the North American Steel Group adjusted EBITDA margin of 12.2% in fiscal 2025. The addition of these levels of earnings by the precast operations will significantly shift the composition of Commercial Metals Company's earnings, increasing the combined contribution from our EBG segment and Precast platform to over 32% of total operating segment adjusted EBITDA. Upon completion of the acquisitions, we expect nearly a third of our profitability will be generated by high-value-added solutions with attractive market penetration potential, strong margins, and cash flow conversion. The lower capital intensity of these businesses also means they require less reinvestment to maintain operations and less capital commitment to grow organically, enhancing free cash flows. Margin levels and normalized free cash flow conversion are both expected to increase meaningfully. Based on Foley and CPMP's forecasted results for 2025, the addition of Foley and CPMP would have increased Commercial Metals Company's core EBITDA margin by more than two percentage points, and…

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you, Paul. I will now turn to our earnings presentation. The goal of our strategy is to drive meaningful and sustainable improvements to Commercial Metals Company's margins, earnings, cash flow, and returns on capital, while reducing volatility in our business. As you can see on Slide five, we are executing against this objective along three paths. First, by investing in our people and pursuing excellence in all we do. Second, by investing in value-accretive organic growth, and third, by driving capability-enhancing inorganic growth as we just discussed in detail. Each of these objectives represents a significant opportunity for Commercial Metals Company and taken together will be game-changing for our returns, scale, and ultimately the value we create for investors. We made tremendous progress across each of these strategic paths over the last year. And Slide six outlines some of our most notable accomplishments. I'll start with investing in our people and pursuing excellence. As I've said before, the most important investment we can make in our people is to keep them safe on the job. And I am proud to report that fiscal 2025 was the safest year in our company's history and marked the third consecutive year of record safety performance. The job of improving safety is never done, but we are in an excellent position to maintain our momentum and cement our position as truly world-class. During the year, we also invested in the leadership talent and resources that will support strategic execution across our organization. Within our emerging businesses group, we now have in place a group of veteran leaders who are poised to drive EBG segment performance to new heights. We are already seeing early dividends in our Commercial Metals Company Construction Services and Performance Reinforcing Steel divisions as new sales and margin initiatives take…

Paul Lawrence

Management

Thank you, Peter. We reported fiscal fourth quarter 2025 net earnings of $151.8 million or $1.35 per diluted share compared to net earnings of $103.9 million and net earnings per diluted share of $0.90 in the prior year period. Excluding estimated net after-tax charges of approximately $3.2 million, adjusted earnings for the quarter totaled $155 million or $1.37 per diluted share compared to $97.4 million and $0.84 per diluted share respectively in the prior year period. These adjustments consisted of a $3.8 million pretax expense for interest on the judgment amount associated with the previously disclosed litigation, an impairment charge of $3.4 million, and a $2.9 million unrealized gain on undesignated commodity hedges. During 2025, we modified our method of calculating adjusted EBITDA to exclude the impact of unrealized gains and losses from undesignated commodity derivatives. This change was primarily driven by heightened volatility in copper forward markets, which introduced significant non-cash fluctuations unrelated to our core operations. The relevant financial figures, including historical numbers, have been adjusted to reflect this change, impacting consolidated adjusted earnings, adjusted earnings per diluted share, adjusted EBITDA, core EBITDA, and core EBITDA margin, as well as North American Steel Group adjusted segment EBITDA. Given the prominence of these metrics, we have published recast quarterly figures dating back to fiscal 2019 in a Form 8-Ks filing accompanying our earnings release this morning. We believe this change in reporting will provide a more representative view of our operating performance and cash-generating capability. Consolidated core EBITDA was $291.4 million for 2025, representing a 33% increase from the $219 million generated during the prior year period. Slide 14 of the supplemental presentation illustrates the year-to-year changes in Commercial Metals Company's quarterly financial performance. Segment level adjusted EBITDA increased by $87.4 million in total, with our North American Steel…

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you, Paul. We expect consolidated financial results in 2026 to be generally consistent with those of the fourth quarter. Finished steel shipments within the North America Steel Group are anticipated to follow normal seasonal trends, while our adjusted EBITDA margin is expected to increase sequentially on higher steel product margins over scrap. While we expect financial results in the Emerging Businesses Group to decline on a sequential basis due to normal seasonality, we believe they will improve year over year. Our Europe Steel Group will receive the second tranche of the annual CO2 credit in an amount of approximately $15 million during the first quarter. Excluding this credit, adjusted EBITDA for our Europe Steel Group is likely to be around breakeven as seasonal factors and scheduled maintenance outages weigh on profitability. I am confident in Commercial Metals Company's long-term outlook and continue to believe in our ability to generate significant value for our shareholders. We are executing on several strategic initiatives, which we believe will deliver meaningful and sustained enhancements to our margins, earnings, cash flow, and return on capital. We will achieve this by leveraging our TAG operational and commercial excellence program to get more out of our existing enterprise, completing value-accretive organic projects, and adding complementary early-stage construction solutions that provide attractive new growth lanes. Taken together, we believe these efforts will position our company to take full advantage of the powerful structural trends in the domestic construction market for years to come. I would like to conclude by thanking our customers for their trust and confidence in Commercial Metals Company and all of our employees for delivering yet another quarter of very solid safety and operational performance. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And at this time, we will now open the call to questions. And your first question today will come from Mike Harris with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Cecilia Tang

Analyst

Hi, good morning. This is Cecilia Tang on for Mike Harris. You mentioned strong growth in the construction industry. I was wondering how much of that demand is coming from infrastructure, residential, industrial, and energy?

Peter Matt

Management

Yes. Thank you very much for the questions, Cecilia. Infrastructure has been very strong. It has been for the past several years really on the back of the IIJA. And we expect it's going to continue to be strong. And I would say that we expect there to be a follow-on bill so that this should be a multiyear trend. On non-residential construction, it's been a bit mixed. There have been certain areas that are very strong. Areas like energy, as you cite, that's been very strong. Data centers, obviously very strong. Institutional spending on hospitals, that type of thing has been also very strong. But then there have been other areas that are kind of weaker, and I'm thinking about kind of commercial buildings, retail has been weaker. The thing that's exciting about the nonresidential space is that there is a huge backlog of potential projects coming down the pike. And I'm thinking about, and we've said this before, there are something like $2 trillion of potential projects that are out there that have been announced. And then there's still a huge pipeline of potential projects that come behind that in some of these trade deals, if and when they get negotiated. So we're very bullish about a turn in non-residential spending, and we'll see that move from kind of what's been flattish to something that's growing again. And then lastly, residential markets, residential markets have been lackluster, I would say, and a lot of that is tied to interest rates. Those markets tend to be more sensitive to interest rates. But as we see interest rates start to come down, we have confidence that we're going to see a turn in that market. And remember that we have a deficit of 2 to 4 million homes in this country. So there's absolutely a demand backdrop that warrants the residential spending. And we just have to get to a place where the economics support that. But we think we're going to see that as rates continue to drift down. So in total, we remain very bullish about the level of spending over the next several years. Each of these sectors, it's a multiyear trend.

Cecilia Tang

Analyst

Thank you. That's very helpful. And also, given the bullish outlook, why is it that the first quarter outlook is not more positive, especially given the positive performance in the current quarter?

Paul Lawrence

Management

Yes, Cecilia, there's a few moving pieces to our outlook for the first quarter. You're correct. As far as North America Steel Group is concerned, we're going to have a very strong quarter in the first quarter. We often measure the North American Steel Group as EBITDA per ton, and it was great to see in the fourth quarter that the EBITDA per ton of that segment was over $200 a ton. And as we said in our stated remarks, we exited the quarter with a metal margin over $30 a tonne higher than the average for the quarter. So North America Steel Group will have a great quarter. However, if we look at our Europe Steel Group, two aspects to that. We talked about the reduction in the CO2 credits. We will get another credit in the first quarter, but it will be roughly half of what we received in the fourth quarter. So that'll be a $15 million impact. And then we have our typical seasonal planned maintenance outage that will reduce the operating performance, excluding the CO2 credits, to near breakeven. And the other piece is within the EBG group, because Tensar means a significant portion to that business, and it's really involved in site prep. The seasonality of that business is quite a bit more significant than our other businesses. So as we guided towards improvement over last year, but a similar type of transition from fourth quarter to first quarter, those are the major factors, which drive us towards a fairly consistent overall quarter over quarter, but many different moving pieces within the portfolio.

Cecilia Tang

Analyst

That makes sense. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And your next question today will come from Satish Kathanasan with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Satish Kathanasan

Analyst

Yes. Hi, good morning, Peter and Paul. Congrats on a strong quarter and the announced acquisition. Thank you, Amit. With Foley and CPMP, Nava, like, I think you now have strong scale in the precast concrete market. With this kind of size, do you think the focus over the next couple of years will be to just integrate the assets and reduce debt, or given the fragmented market, would you continue to look for additional inorganic growth opportunities?

Peter Matt

Management

Yes. So that's a great question. So thank you very much. As we kind of look forward with these two transactions, I'd say it's fair to say we are done for now. We have quite a bit of integration to do with these transactions. And we're very happy with the platform that we've built. As we look a little bit further forward, once we bring our leverage down to into our acceptable range, then we would start to look at other transactions. We think this is a big market. Again, precast overall, as we said on the last call when we introduced CPMP, this is a $30 billion market. And it's fragmented, and we think there are going to likely be opportunities for us over time. Bolt-ons will be super attractive because they typically are cheaper, they come with synergies, and they strengthen our core, which is kind of part of the message that we are consistently trying to reinforce. And bigger transactions will likely be more episodic. But our goal for this platform is ultimately to create one of national scale that looks a little bit like our rebar business again, and that's to do that we're going to build a platform several $100 million of EBITDA, but we're going to do it on a measured basis. And remember, we've always said from the beginning, we're going to be super disciplined about M&A and making sure that we deliver the returns on the M&A that we do. And integrating these assets successfully is absolutely critical to ensuring the success of that going forward. So very excited about the opportunity, and these two businesses could not fit together better. So anyway, super excited about what we have so far.

Paul Lawrence

Management

Satish, I would just add, as we've been talking with the investment community probably for two years, we've been looking at the early-stage construction and really honing in on this precast market. And the one thing that came up repeatedly was that these are the two leaders in the space. And so obviously, don't dictate the timing of when the assets become available, but when they became available, it was imperative that we took a look and tried to build the portfolio that made sense.

Satish Kathanasan

Analyst

Yeah. That's great to hear. Just on Foley, it is clear that the margin profile is one of the best today, but can you maybe share the historical growth rate portfolio like over the past two, three years? And looking ahead, do you see potential for this business to continue to grow or gain market share and grow above the 5% to 7% market growth?

Peter Matt

Management

Yeah. I think if you look at the growth of the business over the last couple of years, I think we should assume there's a base level of growth that's kind of GDP related. And then on top of that, there's growth related to kind of share expansions that the business has a number of expansions that it's in progress on. In its territory today or in its territories today, that will provide opportunities for future growth. So we would expect to grow at a level in excess of GDP over the next couple of years from a volume standpoint.

Paul Lawrence

Management

And I would just add, Satish, the margin level that we described in the material, the business has generated that consistently over the last handful of years. So very consistent performer.

Satish Kathanasan

Analyst

Okay. Thank you. I'll jump back in queue. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And your next question today will come from Alex Hacking with Citi. Please go ahead.

Alex Hacking

Analyst

Yes. Thanks. Good morning and congrats on the deal. I guess just following up on the margin question, Foley's margins look like they're almost double CPMP. You maybe give a little more color on kind of what's driving that? And is there a potential opportunity to increase margins at CPMP from learning from Foley? Thanks.

Peter Matt

Management

Yes. Thanks, Alex. Appreciate the question. So a couple of things that I would point to. And again, I think as we look at these businesses, one of the things we really like about this is we've, and as Paul said, we spent a lot of time looking at these businesses, is that they both bring strength to the table. There are certain things that Foley does really well, there are certain things that CPMP does really well, and I think the combination of those two companies is going to build a really formidable company in our portfolio. If we look at Foley specifically relative to CPMP and try to articulate the margin differentials, one of the things Foley has a different operating model than CPMP, and so that's a factor. And the other thing that I would say on the CPMP side is that CPMP has made a number of acquisitions recently where they are kind of works in process, and so as a consequence, the margins in some of those businesses are lower, and they bring down the overall margin. So if you look at precast in general, it is the case that Foley's margins stand out. But CPMP does, if you look at the plants that are kind of the more mature plants, they have very attractive margins there as well.

Alex Hacking

Analyst

Okay. Thanks for the color. And then just following up, I guess, on the cash conversion side, of the $600 million CapEx next year, estimate? How much of that would be for precast? And within that, how much would be kind of sustaining versus growth? Thank you.

Peter Matt

Management

Yes. Well, for Precast, the maintenance CapEx on these businesses is much lower. We talked about in the case of CPMP, you may remember we talked about $8 million to $10 million of maintenance CapEx. In the case of Foley, it's like a kind of $10 million to $15 million type of number. In the case of CPMP, for the reason that I just explained to you, they've got these businesses that they've acquired where there's some investment that we think we can support, their spending is probably going to be a little bit higher over the first couple of years of our ownership as we kind of bring together the investments that they've made. And again, all of that CapEx beyond maintenance is spending that has very attractive returns tied to it.

Paul Lawrence

Management

The only thing, Alex, I'd add is Peter's talking about annual numbers, and as we talked about, really, we expect the transaction to close by the end of the calendar year. So the numbers in our fiscal will be a lot lower than those. Thanks for the clarification.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question today will come from Carlos De Alba with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Carlos De Alba

Analyst

Yes. Thank you very much. Good morning. And maybe a follow-up on the prior question. How quickly do you think that the margins in CPMP and particularly in those recent acquisitions could bring to the levels that Foley and maybe the core CPMP business is already experiencing? Is it a year or two-year?

Peter Matt

Management

Great question, Carlos. So the one thing I'd say is we want to be a little careful. We don't own these businesses yet. So we need to kind of close on the transactions and better understand what we have. And with that understanding will come more clarity on the timeframe. But I think the appropriate way to frame it for you at this juncture is that we talk about the synergies as being achievable over a three to five-year horizon, and I think that that's the right horizon to think about for any kind of improvement in the CPMP margins. Obviously, there are some things that will come quick, and then there's other things that will take longer. I just mentioned before in response to Alex's question that we're going to put some extra capital into CPMP to the tune of kind of $5 million per year, and that will be to accelerate some of that, and again, that's all really high-return capital that we'll be deploying.

Carlos De Alba

Analyst

All right. So the $5 million to $10 million incremental EBITDA in CPMP that you mentioned, that includes this recent acquisition by the company stepping up their EBITDA generation, right?

Peter Matt

Management

No. Just to be clear, so when we announced CPMP, we said that there was $5 million to $10 million in that transaction. We maintain that, right? And then in this transaction, we're bringing another $25 to $30 million over a three to five-year period. So it's that's why, and you'll remember in the last conversation that we had when we acquired or when we announced the acquisition of CPMP, we said that, as we have a platform, we would have more synergies with successive moves. And this is a great example of this. And honestly, you might ask the question about the timing of these two transactions, obviously, we couldn't call the timing, but I think when you see that magnitude of synergies, it makes it clear why this was a transaction we had to look at seriously. So it's yes, it's an extra $25 million to $30 million in this transaction.

Carlos De Alba

Analyst

All right. Fair enough. And my second question is regarding the outlook for dividends and buybacks vis-a-vis the cash flow generation of the company. You did mention that the acquisitions, both of them are going to be accretive to free cash flow. You're not going to really pay a lot of cash taxes in the next two years. How do you see dividends and buybacks in the coming quarters?

Peter Matt

Management

Yes. So let me just say to answer your question directly, on dividends, we have no plan to change our dividend. Zero plan to change our dividend. And I say also our long-term capital allocation strategy is not changing at all. Not at all. What I would say is that we are done with acquisitions for now. And we're going to focus on the big acquisitions for now, and we're going to focus on integration and making sure that we make these transactions highly successful and great return investments for our business. We will continue the organic growth projects that we've started across the company. As we move past Steel West Virginia, these will be much more capital-light investments, but we will continue those. And we will slow down our share repurchase program and bring it to a level where we're offsetting employee share grants in the short term as we get our leverage back down below the two times target. And as we once we get to the two times target or below, we'll then ramp up share repurchases. Share repurchases are a critical part of our capital allocation strategy. And we intend to resume those as our balance sheet comes into line.

Paul Lawrence

Management

And Carlos, we're very confident in both the numerator and the denominator in terms of being able to bring that leverage down in terms of the you mentioned the cash flow and the lack of U.S. cash taxes, the reduction in CapEx going forward. And the optimism in the current environment in our business is that cash flow generation is expected to be very strong. And then that also is helping the EBITDA that we expect the business to generate over the coming periods also expected to be strong, and therefore both aspects should help us achieve that two times net leverage over the coming quarters.

Carlos De Alba

Analyst

Perfect. Thank you.

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you, Carlos.

Operator

Operator

And your next question today will come from Bill Peterson with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Bill Peterson

Analyst

Yes. Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking the questions and congrats on the second transaction here in a few months. Along those lines, I have a longer-term question, maybe more suited for a Capital Markets Day, but given these transactions, how would you envision the company looking like in sort of a five-plus-year timeframe in terms of product mix, rebar versus long products, ground stabilization, precast, or other materials? Given the margin structure in these newer businesses and acquired companies, would you consider selling core assets in order to accelerate the transition? Just trying to get a sense of how we should envision this company over the long term.

Peter Matt

Management

Yes, it's a great question. If you think about the strategy that we've outlined, it's one of becoming an early-stage construction supplier. And if you think about our rebar business, our fabrication business, these fit perfectly, and these are early-stage construction suppliers. You think about our tensor business, it's early-stage construction. Think about our recently acquired Precast platforms, early-stage construction, PRS performance reinforcing steel, early-stage construction, and construction services, same thing. So if you look at the portfolio that we have today, we've got a number of interesting assets that we can build on, and that's one of the things we find so compelling about the portfolio to become a leader in early-stage construction. So when we talk about our precast business, again, as I said in response to an earlier question, our goal is to build that into something where we have a national footprint, and that's going to mean kind of several $100 million of EBITDA. With these two transactions, we're well on the way to doing that. And with the footprint that Foley brings, I think we have a beachhead to examine some of those markets that, by the way, we know well because we're already in those markets with our rebar fabrication, our mills business, right? So there's a very natural path that we're following. As we look at our other EBG businesses, we would love to grow Tensar. We think that has great potential, and it's still a very underpenetrated market. It could be it will be an important piece of our portfolio. Performance reinforcing steel, the plant that we have today is sold out. So we're building another one. And we believe that the demand for kind of corrosion-resistant steel in this country, given some of the changes in weather and so forth, is…

Bill Peterson

Analyst

No, certainly. Thanks for all that. Details there. My next question is more, I guess, term-focused. You talked about typical seasonality across several of these sectors. But I guess on North America, if you look back, this would imply something like a down 3% to 7% quarter on quarter. We've seen a lot of variability over the last five years or so. And I would assume you're really talking more driven by the downstream versus products. But can you unpack what typical seasonality has really meant here? And what that may look like for the various subsectors? Subsegments of your business?

Paul Lawrence

Management

Yeah, Bill. You know, the season, September through November, really it is a good construction season similar to our fourth quarter with the exception of the week that we lose for Thanksgiving. So really, we see it's usually that 3% reduction in volumes that we see in the first quarter on the North American steel group. As I said in an earlier answer, we do see impacts to the other segments a little bit stronger given the more cyclical nature of site preparation, which drives a lot of the EBG business. So that one is a little bit more seasonal, as you saw last year. And then Europe with the outage, it's less seasonal, but the outage season.

Bill Peterson

Analyst

Thanks for that, Paul. Thanks for all the details. Appreciate it.

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you, Bill.

Operator

Operator

And your next question today will come from Andrew Jones with UBS. Please go ahead.

Andrew Jones

Analyst

Hi, gents. I just want to better understand the barriers to entry in this business. I mean, to me, it looks like it's a pretty fragmented business. You obviously call out a few things on the slides, including relatively high capital costs. I mean, could you give us some idea in terms of how to sort of quantify those? And when you talk about the steep learning curve, can you kind of give us some sort of sense as to how complex this is? Because I just high level, our fragmented business usually means a much lower margin than we're seeing in these numbers. Thanks.

Peter Matt

Management

Yes. So again, if we look at what drives this business, it starts with the customer, right? And if you look across the portfolio of CPMP or Foley, they've got great relationships in the region that connect them and obviously a reputation and the capability to service these the jobs that they're getting. And I think obviously reputation, just like in our rebar fabrication, it's critical that you deliver the products on time and that you deliver good quality products and that you help the contractor accelerate their jobs. So those are really important. And the third leg of this is capability. And when you look at the capabilities of both CPMP and Foley, they bring a broad-based precast capability. So you can be in the Precast business pretty easily if you kind of have a concrete mixer and a mold. But the point is that most of these comp job sites, they need a lot of different forms to serve the precast need. And so as a consequence, the capability that both of these companies have across the concrete pipe and precast fronts gives them a differentiating capability to perform in the market on these complicated jobs. And the last thing I would say is, and this goes to the speed point, is that having some scale helps a lot on these larger jobs because, again, what the contractors will tell you is when they start a project, they want to go fast. And so they don't want to wait for material, and the party that can have the material available has a real advantage in supplying the product.

Andrew Jones

Analyst

In terms of the percentage of Well, thanks very much.

Peter Matt

Management

So can you, Andrew, can you start over because we lost follow on.

Andrew Jones

Analyst

Oh, no, no. Just that no, that was clear. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And your next question today will come from Katja Jankic with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Katja Jankic

Analyst

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Maybe just quickly, Peter, did you say earlier on in the call that you would like to grow the Precast business to $700 million in EBITDA? Did I hear that correctly?

Peter Matt

Management

No, no, several $100 million. Several $100 million. And sorry, go ahead.

Katja Jankic

Analyst

No, no, you go. Sorry.

Peter Matt

Management

No, I was just going to say several $100 million. And again, between these two acquisitions, we're already at $250 million. So we've got a good start.

Katja Jankic

Analyst

And I think with the announcement of the first acquisition, the commentary was that most of this the growth there is more likely through M&A. Is that correct?

Peter Matt

Management

It is. It is. I mean, there are organic projects, and I noted two of them earlier in this call on the Foley platform, and there's a number of organic growth projects in the CPMP platform. But again, to build scale and the scale that we're talking about doing, as I said in the last call, it's likely going to involve M&A. The good news is that now, as I said, we have a real that we can build around. So bolt-on acquisitions that come with lots of synergies will be very appealing. And then when they come around, some of these larger acquisitions, which are not going to be every single day, but when they come around, we'll be in a position to look at those as well.

Paul Lawrence

Management

Just to supplement that, Katja, I would say the step change comes from inorganic growth. I think as we look at the trends in these businesses, we see above-average growth for the adoption and penetration of Precast product. They really solve a labor shortage issue. They solve stormwater management issues, and, you know, that has been what really has driven some good-sized growth. If we look at the regions in which these businesses operate, the growth expectation of construction activity in their geographies is expected to be very attractive over the coming years.

Katja Jankic

Analyst

Perfect. Thank you so much.

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you, Katja.

Operator

Operator

And your next question today will come from Phil Gibbs with KeyBanc Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Phil Gibbs

Analyst

Hey, good morning.

Peter Matt

Management

Hey, Phil.

Phil Gibbs

Analyst

Question about the CapEx guidance for this year around $600 million. Does that include CapEx related to the businesses that you're poised to close on? And if not, what's the typical maintenance level of CapEx associated with those businesses?

Peter Matt

Management

Yes, it does not. That's a Commercial Metals Company CapEx number. But Phil, you may have heard us say in response to an earlier question, the maintenance CapEx for these businesses, it's probably $8 million to $10 million for CPMP and probably $10 million to $15 million for Foley. So they're not big CapEx numbers. That's a percentage of their revenues. No. That's million dollars.

Phil Gibbs

Analyst

Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's generally 3% to 4% revenue in this precast space is the maintenance CapEx, a very generic number, but that's it's very capital-light.

Phil Gibbs

Analyst

Okay. And as you've really pivoted and accelerated the strategy to acquire some of these more upstream-oriented construction-facing businesses in The United States, particularly in the Southeast and Mid-Atlantic. Do you think that you think that that means that there should be a more natural buyer perhaps for your European assets?

Peter Matt

Management

Well, so again, when we look at our European assets, I think I've said this in the past. We really, really appreciate those assets for what they bring to the Commercial Metals Company family. And I'd just point to the TAG kind of initiative that I mentioned earlier on the call. The team in Europe has done just a phenomenal job on being low cost, and there's a lot that we can extrapolate from what they've done to help us in North America. One of the things that our team in North America is absolutely dead set on is that we will be a low-cost producer in our steel business in North America. So the Polish business brings a lot to the table, and it's absolutely a core part of our portfolio.

Phil Gibbs

Analyst

Thank you.

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you, Phil.

Operator

Operator

At this time, there appears to be no further questions. Mr. Matt, I'll turn the call back over to you.

Peter Matt

Management

Thank you very much. At Commercial Metals Company, we remain confident that our best days are ahead. The combination of the structural demand trends we have noted, operational and commercial excellence initiatives to strengthen our through-the-cycle performance, and value-accretive growth opportunities, including our recently announced precast acquisitions, create an exciting future for our company. Thank you for joining us on today's conference call. We look forward to speaking with many of you during our investor calls in the coming days and weeks. Thank you very much, everybody.

Operator

Operator

This concludes today's Commercial Metals Company conference call. You may now disconnect.