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Cosan S.A. (CSAN)

Q4 2021 Earnings Call· Tue, Feb 22, 2022

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to Cosan’s Conference Call to discuss the results of the Fourth Quarter and the Full Year of 2021. Today with us, we have Mr. Luis Henrique Guimarães, CEO; Mr. Marcelo Martins, Chief Strategy Officer; Mr. Ricardo Lewin, [CFO and DRI] [ph] and IRO; and Ms. Ana Luisa Perina, IR Manager. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and simultaneous translation into English is available. [Operator Instructions] During this event, all participants will be able to listen to the presentation. Afterwards, we’ll begin the Q&A session when further instructions will be given. Before proceeding, let me mention that forward-looking statements that may be made during this presentation regarding the company’s business prospects, and operating and financial projections and goals are based on Cosan’s management beliefs and assumptions as well as on information currently available to the company. Forward-looking statements are not a guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they relate to future events, and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. General economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors may affect the company’s future results and lead to results that differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. Now, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Ricardo Lewin. Please Mr. Lewin, you may proceed.

Ricardo Lewin

Analyst

[Interpreted] Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining Cosan’s fourth quarter and full year of 2021 earnings conference call. For those who don’t know me yet, I’m Ricardo Lewin, CFO and IRO. For the last 4 years, I held the same position at Rumo, and before I spent almost 10 years leading the M&A department at the holding company. After establishing the position of Chief Strategy Officer, Marcelo Martins will be fully focused on Cosan’s and invested companies capital allocation process, while I take over the financial and IR roles. As this is the call for the yearly figures are also joining me at the Q&A session, Luis Henrique, our CEO; Marcelo Martins; and Ana Perina, IR Manager. Before starting the presentation, I would like to recap the main achievements for the group in 2021 as you have been following. We started with the corporate restructuring and streamlined our capital structure, especially with Raízen’s IPO and Compass private placements. On the top of that, we also bought back shares through TRS distributed R$1.2 billion on dividends throughout the year, continue to liability management process and invested in new projects across the group, always focused on long-term return of our business portfolio, which once again proved to be well balanced, expose it to sectors in which Brazil has important competitive advantages. Let’s get to the numbers as both Raízen and Rumo have already hosted their own conference calls with the market, I will briefly go over the main topics of these businesses. I will start the presentation with the main financial and operational highlights of each business beginning with Raízen. Moving to Slide #4 to talk about renewables. We posted a strong expansion in results reflecting the increase in revenues from renewable products. In ethanol, we captured opportunities in our…

Operator

Operator

Thank you. This concludes – we will now start the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Mr. Luiz Carvalho from UBS.

Luiz Carvalho

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hello everyone, Luiz here. Hi, Ana, Lewin, and Luis Henrique. I think, I could spend an hour asking you questions. But let me focus on capital allocation and looking at Porto Seguro’s press release. There’s some more detail there. And they mentioned a revision of the continuity of some of their investment projects. So I’d like to hear from you in terms of capital allocation, Porto Seguro revision, is that a one-off? Are you looking at other assets? Are you revisiting your capital allocation process? And if so, how should we be looking at that in broader terms also Compass and the other company invested in mining are not listed? Could you give us some more color about how you see Compass’ development? You’ve been making progress in some areas, but you’ve had difficulty in other areas. How the law will be interpreted on a federal level compared to the state level? Can you talk a little bit about Gaspetro? And give us a bit more detail about mining, what the next steps will be and how things are progressing? Thank you.

Marcelo Eduardo Martins

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hi, Luiz, this is Marcelo Martins. I’ll be taking your first question and Luis will be taking the second. Well, it’s very clear in all of our businesses, and at the holding that we always review our portfolio, because considering the current scenario, there’s an increase in interest rates taking the cost of capital to a different level. And we need to be conscientious about how we’re going to allocate that capital. As you know, we have historical capital discipline, and we can move fast, whenever we need to make changes. We like – moving back, thesis were decided to make the decision to go into that business, because we support and we like the thesis. But based on our capital allocation structure, it wouldn’t make sense to disperse all of that capital, because we’re not just talking about what we were going to invest to buy our share. But that business really requires capital over time. So we made a decision, because it would be incompatible to keep that kind of investment plan considering Brazil’s current scenario. Unfortunately, it was a matter of timing and that was our decision now, if things were different, the outcome might have been different. Considering other projects, our decision to review our capital allocation is across the board. But in the case of mining owing into the nature of the project, there are many hurdles that need to be considered over time. So we’re not going to jump the gun and say we’ve decided not to allocate that capital to mining, because the way that operation has been structured and the time we’ll have to make that capital allocation decision will give us that flexibility naturally. So we’re happy with the time we have to make decisions. We’re happy with the assets…

Luiz Carvalho

Analyst

[Interpreted] Great. Just a quick follow-up. Luis, do you have any idea about operating gains, synergies, and Marcelo, so Porto Seguro’s decision, which might happen in other businesses, it’s just a matter of priority given the matter of capital restriction, high interest rates so you are – it’s a matter of a priority of what you want to buy? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Yes, exactly. That’s it, Luiz. That’s exactly it.

Luiz Carvalho

Analyst

[Interpreted] What about Sulgás? Luis, any idea there? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Well, what we see there, Luis is operating technique, business Model approaches, we will be replicating that based on what we did with Comgás. The conversion of new businesses, some clients are already looking at the network based on that. But when you consider scale, they’re much smaller than Congress. There are smaller distributors that can be developed over time. But what I can say is that high quality team, high quality assets, an opportunity for multiplication, our team is extremely happy with the thesis. We’ve been there for 2 months. So there’s a lot of foundation work to be done. We need to work on culture optimization, but the first 60 days have been very, very positive.

Luiz Carvalho

Analyst

[Interpreted] Fantastic. Thank you so much.

Operator

Operator

We now have a question from Isabella Simonato from Bank of America.

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hi, everyone, how are you? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] We’re doing great. Thank you.

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

[Interpreted] Thanks, Luis. Good morning, everyone. I have a question about the controlling companies leverage. You mentioned the high interest rates inflation. What kind of opportunities do we see in terms of liability management both at the controlling company, and if there’s anything that you think, it’s relevant about the subsidiary companies, but focusing mainly on Cosan? What can be done considering this new scenario and the new cost of capital, as you’ve mentioned? So that’s my first question. Thank you.

Ricardo Lewin

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hi, Isabella, this is Lewin, how are you doing?

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

[Interpreted] I’m good. Thank you.

Ricardo Lewin

Analyst

[Interpreted] Well, in terms of leverage, this is an adjustment of the CapEx we’re doing across the board in the group, all the groups have shown a consistent discipline. So now we are prioritizing our investments across the board in the group. So that’s the first important point when it comes to leverage as for liability management. Our next maturity, that is the Bond 2023, we’ve already partially paid for that. And our amortization schedule is looking great. Our next big payment will be Bond 2027. And, you know us, we’re constantly looking for opportunities to prolong and to reduce price and the cost of debt. But so we now have the prepayment of 23 and looking at market windows to go over the liability potentially for 27.

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

[Interpreted] Okay. That’s great. Thank you, Lewin. And the second question is about the buybacks. Marcelo mentioned those, he said that you’ve been doing that consistently. So considering Raízen, which has a smaller float proportionately, and considering liquidity. How are you thinking about the size of the float, Raízen’s liquidity in the context of buybacks?

Marcelo Eduardo Martins

Analyst

[Interpreted] This is Marcelo, Isabella. We talked to B3 to ask for an exception, so that we could have a bit more flexibility for shareholders to buy back shares, and a commitment to increase that float in the long-term. That paper has to go back to the market at some point, and we’ll need to increase the company’s float. That is our commitment to B3 in the mid to the long-term. And B3 has exceptionally given us the flexibility to buy that back now. And as the market looks more favorable, as prices make sense, we will be selling papers again and over time, we should be able to find the right equation to get to the minimum of the float that is required. Yes, we’re still quite unhappy with the average liquidity of that paper. And our goal is that liquidity should increase over time. We don’t have a clear answer to you right now about what we’re going to do in order to achieve that end. But what I can tell you is that right now, our objective is to buy those shares with an immediate impact on the volume. But that will be going back to the market. We will be selling, obviously, we’ll be buying, but we will be selling those papers also. And considering the share class, the class will you be unifying that? Have you been talking about that when you talk about selling papers or new shares? What kind of price are we talking about? No, we’re not talking about that. Maybe we will in the future. Our goal right now is to make to make sure that there’s more liquidity when it comes to those papers. So shareholders will be making a joint effort to increase liquidity, when the time is right in the market. So that we don’t have the same compression we’re seeing now. The point we convey to B3 was, as we as shareholders can buy back those papers, we’re helping to improve liquidity over time and we’re also making sure that that paper doesn’t lose sustainability based on the fundamentals, because sometimes that’s based on liquidity rather than fundamentals. We have more of a liquidity issue, rather than fundamentals. So in practice, right now, the idea is to buy them back and we’re not talking about unifying classes, even if that might be a possibility down the line. That’s not the case right now.

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

[Interpreted] Very clear. Thank you so much.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from Thiago Duarte from BTG Pactual.

Thiago Duarte

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hi, Luis, Ricardo, Marcelo, Ana, everyone in the team. I’d like to go back to leverage, please, and maybe rephrase the question. In your release, it’s clear that you’re being cautious, since we have high inflation rates, high interest rates, high cost of capital. And how that was part of your decision to end your contract with Mobitech and also to maximize the CapEx in the assets you have in your portfolio? So we’re talking about 2.1 times leverage, and that was an unfavorable quarter, especially considering Raízen because of seasonality. My question is due to the higher cost of capital, and your decision to focus on your current assets, does that change? What you consider to be the ideal leverage for the company or the target leverage for the company? Because you’re leveraging is not that different to what the holding has had historically. But now you’ve made this decision to be a bit more cautious. So I’d like to hear from you, if we should consider a different target leverage level to what we’re seeing right now. So that’s my first question. My second question is about futures. In the past, you’ve always been very vocal about the idea of having in your permanent portfolio listed companies. So we’ve had Raízen’s IPO last year, Rumo is listed. So I’d like to hear about the other companies, whether it be Compass, because I’m sure it’s important for Compass to deliver a few milestones before going to the capital market. But I’d like to hear from you about your permanent portfolio and listing companies. Does that still make sense to you? Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] I’ll take the first and then I’ll turn it over to Lewin. There has been no change when it comes to our…

Operator

Operator

Our next question is from Regis Cardoso from Credit Suisse.

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hello, everyone, thank you for answering my question. Can you hear me okay, Luis, Marcelo, Lewin?

Ana Luisa Perina

Analyst

[Interpreted] Yes, we can, Regis.

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

[Interpreted] Thank you, Ana. I have a couple of questions. The first one is still about Mobitech. Your decision to cancel the investment, was that your decision? Will there be any fines or penalties? And I’d like to ask about the holdings SG&A level, it’s a little bit higher about R$100 million per quarter. Is that a recurring level? And what about Radar’s results, their EBITDA was higher with a land valuation considering the lease and the revenue? Could you separate out, what was the valuation separately? I have a few more questions, one of which is very philosophical, because the holding company, it’s that right now is close to R$11 billion. How are you seeing that that the operating initiatives have plans for investment? So a relevant part of that might come from the operating company’s dividends, or maybe an increase in capital? How do you balance those 2 views? Can the operating companies pay out more than 25% of the profits? Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Thanks, Regis. I’ll take the first question. Let me be very, very clear. Marcelo has already talked about this. Yes, the decision about Mobitech came from us, because we have been reviewing our investment priorities given the current scenario. They are a great partner. We truly admire Porto the quality of what they do as a company, the quality of the project, we still believe in the project. But sometimes in life, you have to make tough decisions. They’re not the easiest, but they make sense, because they preserve the integrity and the quality of our management. There is nothing wrong with the project. Quite the contrary, we wouldn’t have been able to make the investment, considering the cost of inflation, interest rates, the higher cost of capital. We need to…

Ana Luisa Perina

Analyst

[Interpreted] Regis, still under debt, last year, we issued a couple of debentures at the holding. So we’ve done the prep work, and we’re holding part of those resources, as we announced when we made the issuance, so we’ll always be looking at the best opportunity. Last year, we paid our obligations with preferred shareholders and our liability management is definitely part of our recurring process at the holding company. I just want to point out the 2 effects they’ve had in our results. So we have an estimate, a monthly estimate of potential planned valuation effects. And we’ll be seeing that in our revenue and expenses at Radar. But you get an annual report that confirm those amounts, and that’s when the actual accounting takes place. So this year, that accounting happened in October, a month before the acquisition, but after the deal was closed, so that led to a different effect. We had, again, which was an appreciation and a portfolio from one year ago. In the P&L of the 2 months, that they were already with us, we have from R$30 million to R$40 million of revenue from the lease for 2 months, and another R$20 million in other revenue that comes from land valuation, land appreciation, among other effects. So once a year, we have the numbers, but we actually disclose the results every quarter. Okay.

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

[Interpreted] Okay, great. Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] And we terminated the agreement. It was a mutual agreement to end the contract. So it was completely consensual from both parties. Okay.

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

[Interpreted] Fantastic, Luis. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from Gabriel Barra from Citi.

Gabriel Barra

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hello, Luis. Hello, Marcelo. I have a couple of questions. Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] I’m sorry, Barra, we can’t hear you. That’s better. Okay. Great. Thanks.

Gabriel Barra

Analyst

[Interpreted] I have a couple of follow-up questions, please. The main one about Compass. You’ve talked about Compass. You’ve talked a lot about Mobitech, I won’t take up your time with that. But do you think that business might continue on operating terms, but without the cash expense, because as far as I understand it, that is the problem? Because there were some interesting synergies there, would you be able to do that operationally without that cash expense? So that might be a solution for your capital allocation issue? That’s the first one. The second one is about Gaspetro. Could you share with us? What the CADE timeline might be? How long do you think that discussion will take? And I know it’s a complex issue. But is there any remedy that might make the deal not make sense to you and thinking of Compass. When we go back to the IPO, one of Compass’ main points is the potential integration. That’s the main debate when it comes to the Gaspetro purchase and different sectors in the market. So what I’d like to hear from you is, what do you think about that? How do you think there really is an integration among these businesses? What kind of synergies are there, and will that affect competitiveness in the sector? And considering the gas market, I know there’s a lot to be discussed when it comes to regulation. But what would be the main points right now that we should be monitoring so that that business can gain more traction in the short to the mid-term? Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] So Mobitech, yes, we do have the operating conditions, and Raízen and Porto will continue on the same path. And if there are synergies, it will continue because the…

Gabriel Barra

Analyst

[Interpreted] Yes, you did indeed. Thank you very much. It was very clear.

Operator

Operator

We now have a question by Bruno Montanari from Morgan Stanley.

Bruno Montanari

Analyst

[Interpreted] Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for answering my question. You’re adopting a very conservative approach, which makes sense in the current scenario. What might change your mindset to start investing a little bit more, and bearing that in mind considering the group’s companies right now? What might be the main upside surprises when it comes to your 2022 results? And what are you mostly concerned about when it comes to this year’s results? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Well, first of all, any abrupt change such as the one we went through, and are going through the change and inflation rates, interest rates, those require adjustments. We’ve talked to you at other conference calls, the translation of all that into price is happening and will happen. Let’s not delude ourselves that the cost of capital will not affect prices, products, tariffs, but there’s a time for that to happen. And the advantages and disadvantages – relative advantages and disadvantages for different companies will also happen. The competition also suffer. But there are different pass-through rates, different transition times, we’re all going through high interest rates, high inflation rates, and this happened very abruptly in Brazil from 2% to 10%, and then to 12%. Obviously, it requires an adjustment so that’s the first point it will become more crystallized as we have more visibility. And then the other [Audio Gap] confidence hence our buyback move that we are very well positioned when it comes to Brazil’s main value drivers agriculture, electricity, renewables, a continental sized company with huge population and with an average purchasing power. So our beliefs have not changed. Our project management hasn’t changed. What has changed is an awareness that these are different times. So we need to watch and wait. We won’t stop our E2G plant projects. We’re committed to that second half of this year. We will continue with our expansion of the North Network. But we might be able to decrease our share and divest from assets that are not core to us. We don’t believe interest rates will remain at this level. We think interest rates have to go down Brazil needs that, especially considering inflation, and then our position will change again. We’re just being cautious. This isn’t about panic. We’re not taking off our foot off the pedal from things that need to happen. We’re just looking around, because there are always opportunities when it comes to OpEx, CapEx projects, we need to look around, accelerate, generate synergies, and that’s what we’re doing, we’re being responsible. At a time of huge changes when it comes to inflation rates, the cost of capital, cost of commodities, which affects the cost of construction, supply chain. That’s all changing. And we’re taking it all into consideration to make sure that we’ll be building assets that will continue to be profitable, while structure competitive in the short, the mid and the long term.

Bruno Montanari

Analyst

[Interpreted] Thank you, Luis.

Operator

Operator

Next question is from Gustavo from Bradesco BBI.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted] Good morning, Luis, Marcelo, Ana. I have a question about Comgás. That was huge cost pressure this quarter. Could you talk a little bit about pass-through and diesel – and Petrobras policy, it’s being a little bit more reticent when it comes to passing through? And my second question is about mining. You took a very important first step, which was concluding the purchase of the St. Louis Port. Of course, there are many steps involved in the process. Could you give a bit more color about that and what the next step will be? Will it be the JV with Paulo Br? Or will you be making more investments in the – before taking that step? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Okay. I’ll take the question about Comgás, the price of fuel and pass-throughs. What happened at Comgás was when we came up with the terms with the São Paulo government, the regulatory agency for the concession there were some fines and other issues that we needed to talk about. And advantages to the granting authority that made it taken the concession and expansion into consideration IGPM to IPCA, and the tariffs in December 2022, so that went over to the fourth quarter, so none of those are recurring. They’re nonrecurring, it has to do with the extension of the concession for another 20 years. As for the fuel, it’s similar to what I said or the cost of capital, interest rates and the competition. Diesels more expensive, fuel oil is more expensive. And so, will gas be more expensive. The regulatory authority and the granting powers have to be aware that this will lead to higher prices and problems in the future. So we’re not concerned about that. But obviously, this could lead to overall consumption reduction, but…

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted] Thank you. That’s very clear.

Operator

Operator

Next question is from Sebastian Hickman from JPMorgan.

Lucas Ferreira

Analyst

[Interpreted] Hi, everyone, this is Lucas actually. Can you hear me? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Hi, Lucas. Yes, go ahead. We can hear you.

Lucas Ferreira

Analyst

[Interpreted] Good afternoon. I have a couple of questions. The first one is considering your portfolio management strategy. Will you be divesting from any assets? Would that make any sense? You’ve had a few rounds with Compass and Compass’ capitalization is doing great. I don’t think it needs any more capital. But do you think this year? Or are there any other assets? I mean, you bought back Radar? Are there any other assets in your portfolio that you’re considering divesting from? And another question, maybe to Luis and Ricky, or Marcelo, how should we consider your investment scope at Investimentos? Are you looking abroad? What kind of themes are you considering? Energy transition, would that make any sense to you? You talked about a more challenging scenario. Are there any themes you’re considering when it comes to long-term investment? I know you’ve raised the bar when it comes to investments or would you be focusing on Brazil only? Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Well, let’s start with potential investments. Our current goal is not to divest from our portfolio, as we said. We might have Compass’ IPO which should lead to some dilution but not divestment. We will continue to list our companies Compass should be the next one. On the list, when we have a market window, we don’t feel the need to go through that IPO right now, the company’s capital level is good, its indebtedness structure is low, low debt. The company tends to be more conservative. But when we do see the right market window, we will be going through the company’s IPO and move will also become a listed company. Is there another investment level? We can talk a little bit more about that if you like. But that’s what we see in terms of…

Lucas Ferreira

Analyst

[Interpreted] Thank you. That’s very clear. Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. This concludes the question-and-answer session. I will now turn the floor to Mr. Louisa Hickey for his closing remarks.

Ana Luisa Perina

Analyst

[Interpreted] This is Ana. Thank you so much for taking part in our call. We’ve had a few questions in the chat box. They were all answered by in the answers that were given to the analysts. But if you do have any additional questions, please do get in touch with us. I’ll turn it over to Luis for his final remarks. Luis Henrique Guimarães: [Interpreted] Thank you so much for your questions. It’s always great to hear your questions, anything you might need clarified. As we said, we did deliver there, there is room for improvement when it comes to results, but we are on top of it. All of our teams at the holding are working to make sure that happen. Structurally speaking, we’ve been doing very well. We have a great position for each of our assets. All business trends are favorable in terms of renewables, distribution, agricultural growth, supplying the world, and so on and so forth. Not to mention our huge ability to reduce our carbon footprint, when it comes to our businesses and our partners. It’s a very complex scenario. In the short-term, we heard a lot about high interest rates, high inflation rates and high costs in general. So that requires us to be a bit more conservative than we usually are. But it also allows us to look at opportunities and to make any necessary adjustments with the right speed. But we’re very excited about opportunities prospects, and we see costs settling into different value chains, different segments, and will allow us to become a more competitive and efficient player to capture any additional value that we see in the short and the midterm. You will continue to hear from us, we will continue to be transparent. So all of our teams are focusing on delivering what we disclosed in our guidance. Raízen will be posting this year’s crop year result. Thank you so much and take care.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. This concludes Cosan’s conference call. Have a nice day.