Earnings Labs

Cosan S.A. (CSAN)

Q3 2022 Earnings Call· Mon, Nov 14, 2022

$4.18

+4.76%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

+0.38%

1 Week

-5.48%

1 Month

-3.68%

vs S&P

-0.03%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to Cosan's Conference Call to discuss the results for the Third Quarter 2022. Simultaneous translation will be available during the Q&A session. To use the translation tool, please click on the interpretation icon at the bottom of the screen and select your language of choice, Portuguese or English. Participants listening in English can mute the original audio in Portuguese by clicking on mute original audio. This conference is being recorded and will be made available on the company's IR website at cosan.com.br where you can also find all the material regarding our earnings release. [Operator Instructions] Please note that the information contained in this presentation are forward-looking statements regarding the company's business prospects and operating and financial projections and goals are based on Cosan's management team's beliefs and assumptions as well as on information currently available to the company. Forward-looking statements are not a guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they relate to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors may affect the company's future results and lead to results that may differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. Today, we have here with us Mr. Luis Henrique Guimarães, CEO; and Mr. Ricardo Lewin, CFO and IRO. I would now like to turn the conference over to...

Ricardo Lewin

Analyst

Good afternoon everyone and thank you for participating in Cosan's Earnings Conference Call for the third quarter of 2022. With me today I have Luis Henrique, our CEO. Before going to the numbers, I want to highlight that despite the highly volatile economic scenario, we ended the third quarter with strong results and took important steps on our group’s growth journey. Let's now go through the main financial and operational highlights of each business. On Slide 3 you can see Raízen's results. In Renewables, revenue growth and higher bioenergy sales volume were not enough to neutralize the decline in own sales volume and the inflationary pressures on costs and expenses that adversely affected the period’s result. In Sugar, Adjusted EBITDA more than doubled, reflecting the higher share of direct sales and greater prices. In Marketing & Services, Adjusted EBITDA fell in the quarter. In Brazil, the operation was mainly affected by the dynamics of the fuel market, with successive and atypical declines in prices, which affected inventories, and by the price of CBIOS. Meanwhile, the result of the Latin America operation was in line with the same period last year, reflecting the greater sales volume and operating efficiency gains, which were partially offset by higher pressures on inflation and the exchange rate. As you probably followed it in the earnings conference call last week, Raízen continued to advance in its product strategy. I want to highlight the announcement of the sales contract with Shell, jointly with the construction of five additional new plants to meet this demand. Let’s turn now to slide 4, which shows the results of Rumo. Rumo delivered a quarter of record EBITDA and volume, driven by growth in the transported volumes in the North operation and better operational performance. Rumo gained market share in grains in…

Operator

Operator

We would now like to turn it over to Mr. Luis Henrique Guimarães. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us on this call to discuss the third quarter 2022 results. I just want to highlight a few points that Lewin raised during the presentation. You saw in the company's operations that we are still pursuing the avenues of growth that we've been sharing with you. So in Moove our international expansion and improving business efficiency in more mature regions, such as Brazil, Argentina, South America and part of Europe with excellent results and promising future prospects, increasing our position in both American and European markets. As for Compass, we are concluding the work on the Sao Paulo terminals so that its ready in the first half of next year, when we'll start operations and to continue to integrate, improve results and transfer technology investment practices in our Commit operation in the new geographical regions where we have expansion of these areas. And to conclude the investment, which has partly happened in the distribution of operations of our portfolio. At Rumo, full focus on transporting a record crop with very good seasonality. Our figures were better distributor, and we were able to achieve maximum capacity in many areas. And we started our expansion towards Lucas do Rio Verde and concluded the sale of our Santos terminal. So our company is now focusing on expanding and growing capacity so that we can bring on this volume, especially in the Midwest. At Raízen, focusing on excellence and productivity. We've had excellent signs in the first and second cuts of the sugarcane. We're also announcing new plants, so 9 plants, 5 of which have been recently announced and full focus on execution and implementation and marketing and services. It's been…

Thiago Duarte

Analyst

Hello, everyone. Hi, Lewin. Hi, Luis. It's a pleasure to be here with you. I have a couple of questions about the element of the groups that we haven't discussed yet? The first question actually, is not so much about what Luis mentioned, but more about what we see in your report, in Luis's opening letter. I'd like to draw your attention to an important change in tone when we compare - this led to the letter at the beginning of the year about the last quarter, last year. The tone of that letter was a lot more cautious. And when you announced the cancellation of your joint venture with Porto and now things sound much more constructive for next year, especially after you announced you've bought some interest in Vale. So Luis could you talk a little bit about the context that you're seeing and the basis for your initial message, I'd like to understand the mindset of the group as a whole. And the second question is, when you announced the Vale transaction, you talked a lot about the need and the willingness to work on the company's portfolio. And you mentioned your permanent portfolio, more specifically with a more mature businesses. So could you talk a little bit about what we should consider as more likely? Considering the more mature companies in our portfolio. Would it make sense to think about Compass' IPO, something involving Raízen, Rumo, Moove has become a lot more representative than it used to be not too long ago. So it would be interesting to hear about that, too. Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thank you, Thiago. Well, I'll start by your first question. So the main change well, actually, it's not a change. It's progress. If you remember, at the end of…

Thiago Duarte

Analyst

Yes, you definitely did. Thank you so much. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Our next question comes from Bruno Montanari from Morgan Stanley. We will now unmet you so that you can ask your question. Go ahead, Bruno.

Bruno Montanari

Analyst

Thanks for answering my questions. First, about Vale, I'd like to hear about the talks you're having with shareholders, the company managers about this closer partnership between Cosan and Vale. And how should we think about holding dividends and buybacks now that you've acquired this stake in Vale? Because whether you like it or not, it will require a bit more financial room for maneuver in the holding. And about Compass, could you tell us about your plan of attack to change the distribution companies that are in your portfolio, such as Comgás and other success stories? And in terms of the gas open market, we see some upstream companies taking a bite from these bilateral agreements, which is very, very welcome. So I'd like to hear how Compass might be able to leverage that open market? Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Okay. Let's start with your first question about our transaction with Vale. Well, we are following the usual governance processes. So we were in touch with the Chairman of the Board, Board members, and we're learning about the company. As I said in my previous answer, it's one thing looking at an asset from the outside. We believe that we should make an investment because we believe this is a very valuable company and has huge potential for the future. And we believe we are a complementary shareholder. We have a more industrial and operating perspective. So we can complement each other, and that will lead to success in better results. So we're having the usual interactions. And we're taking all the steps. We're talking to them. Our team visited Brumadinho and Mariana to understand the impact and what's being done. And we came back very happy about how professional there being, they are treating this as a…

Bruno Montanari

Analyst

That's great. Thank you, Luis. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Our next question is from Regis Cardoso from Credit Suisse. We'll now meet you so that you can ask your questions. Please go ahead, Regis.

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

Hi, everyone. Good afternoon, Luis and Lewin. There was some additional information about Vale's acquisitions parameters. More specifically, there was the paid amount and the acquired stake. So can we infer an average purchase price of the shares? Or is there anything we should have in mind in terms of option premiums or any other adjustments? And following along the same lines, is there anything else you can disclose about the options or the premiums paid for the options or even the stake at Raizen or Compass? Because I remember you gave us an approximate stake, but it was different in '23 and '24. So it wasn't very clear exactly what the structure is. So that's my question about the parameters of the structure of your stake in Vale. And my second... Luis Henrique Guimarães: Okay, Regis. Let me answer the first question because I nearly forgot your first question already. So Vale's acquisitions parameters, average price. So this is from December, we're not disclosing this now. So this is a subsequent event. So we're not going to disclose that for the time being. About the strides and options, we're not required to disclose that, and we're not going to because once we do, there may be arbitration on Cosan or on Vale, and that's the last thing we want. So the strike is confidential, and we will keep it confidential. Could you repeat the other part of your question because we didn't really understand it?

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

Can I just rephrase that about the average price in your thesis, it says R$16 billion and 4.85 of the equity. Should I just divide that by the average and that will give me the average price? And the other one was about the stake of the preferred shares in Raizen and Compass? Luis Henrique Guimarães: Yes, you divide it by the number of shares 485, well, that's not really how you do it because when we took out the bridge loan, we use this amount - sorry, I'm answering your question, and I'm thinking out loud here. So we took the equity and the parity. It's not that different, actually. So I am just doing the math, its not going to be that different. Yes, you can do it that way. Something like that will work. It will be completely accurate, but it will be very close. Because some of the parity was spent and then there were premiums. There are a few other elements, but it's not going to be too different from that. Can you repeat your third question, the stake in the purchase structure at Compass and Raizen. Was that it? I'm sorry. I don't really - can you ask the question again, please?

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

Well, you didn't mention what the stake of the preferred shares were in the companies and the dividend, you mean? Yes. And on Monday, after the announcement, you said, well, x percent of the dividends are 23 and y are 24, but we didn't see those numbers in the period. So it wasn't very clear to me whether you have like a minimum preferred dividend and rise per share or well, why did we release this data for '23, '24? Luis Henrique Guimarães: It's because we want the market to understand that we don't have any cash pressure in '23, '24 or '25 because the first payment, if we unwind the structure will only be at the end of '25. So we announced that, we released that. So the market would understand that there is no pressure. Now in the proxy, the number varies. It's the net income of each company. So that varies. And this isn't concrete. It's a forecast. If you want to do a proxy, just repeat what we had last year, that will be a proxy, and we will disclose more information over time as we know more and also as we know what the company's forecast are. Okay.

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

Okay. Great, clear. So the other topic is I've had a lot of meetings recently in the U.S. and a very frequent question is what is the implication of Vales of Cosan's stake in Vale and you made it very clear that this will not affect the company's investment plans. But the way I see it, it's very likely that the companies will have a follow-on to increase capital because there will be less liquidity or should I think about it the other way around? I'm just sharing with you the questions I have been asked in the market. Maybe it would be a good thing for you to comment on that. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Oh, that's great. Thank you, Regis. Okay. Let's take a step back. As I said, the basic assumptions for our joining these five platforms, including Cosan investments with shares in Radar and Vale are first. We do not want to lose control in any of the companies. Second, we want to support the company's investment plan in high performance and high profitability businesses as we see in the growth of E2G distribution companies and so on and so forth and Moove’s expansion - international expansion and so on. The dividend payout will continue. It will be business as usual as you know it, and also looking at opportunities to go public with the two companies. When we collapsed the holding, you remember, the idea was to have all four companies listed. Each company is a different platform or different businesses. So we need to look at their portfolio and consider more relevant businesses and/or new corporate structures or new companies that will allow the company to have more liquidity or reduce third-party investments in the company. So none of the companies need a follow-on. That's not part of their investment plan. As I said, no stake is being sold other than potentially listing the companies. So that's the answer to your question. And the last commitment was that we were not going to decrease Cosan's shareholder - shareholding because our ability to realize those investments. If you look at the company's future cash flow, it's all very positive. And in '26, '7, '28, if we don't consider the investment in Vale, we would have a huge deleveraging at Cosan, and we believe we'll have superior returns by doing what we did with Vale. Did that answer your question, Regis?

Regis Cardoso

Analyst

No, that's great. Yes. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Luis. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Next question is from Luiz Carvalho from UBS. We will now unmute so you can ask your question. Luiz please proceed.

Luiz Carvalho

Analyst

Hi, Luis. Hi, Lewin. Thank you for taking my questions, good evening. I have a couple of questions about topics you have already touched on. But you've talked about capital allocation, dividends, buybacks and the IPOs of the companies that aren't listed yet. So despite rising seasonal effect, this higher debt of close to R$70 billion and considering the interest rate we see in the market. How will that affect some of those lines looking to the next 12 to 18 months? So that's my first question. The second question is you've just mentioned and we know that this is one of the group's main characteristics. So having control over the companies or being in a position that is relevant in terms of the decision-making process. And the way we see it, obviously there might be an opportunity at Vale for Cosan to become a relevant player, maybe by building an agreement - a shareholder agreement with other relevant shareholders. So where are your thoughts on that? Looking at other companies like Rumo, can we maybe think about something similar? Or do you have a different objective for Vale? Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thanks, Luiz. I'll start with your second question. Well, the way we've been thinking about this since we made the decision to start looking at mining and then buying a stake at Vale was the realization that the investor profile we see in this company because it's a fantastic company. It's a fantastic asset with top quality people in it, a very financial profile. So we complement each other. That was the first thing we thought. And then when we looked into it, we realized that we were on the same page in terms of the churn. We all expect the same thing for the future of this…

Luiz Carvalho

Analyst

This is very clear. Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: And now I would like to turn it over to Ms. Camila Amarin [ph] to continue with the Q&A session. We've received a question in English, and they're asking about how they can interpret the consolidated leverage metrics and the potential for dividend to the HoldCo to be impacted by financing at the OpCo levels in the future. Can we give them an update how we're thinking about that, how we're planning for that? Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thank you, Camilla. Well, we've discussed that a little bit. But in terms of leverage, let's not forget that our policy is to be roughly 2 times EBITDA. And obviously, that might go up. And if it does, we do have a plan to deleverage. We're concluding the quarter with a 3 time EBITDA leverage. This is a seasonal effect of Raízen's operations and the pro forma consolidated results. And let's not forget that the effect of leveraging, considering Vale's deal is zero. We have R$8 billion in debt. That's the bridge loan and part of that is cash, and part of that is property deed. So it's actually a bit positive when it comes to our net debt in relation to our net debt. And for the future, you should also consider that our leverage level should be closer to 2 times. And as for the dividends we've been asked if we're going to increase our operating dividends. And we're not. We're not the only partners in the companies. There are other partners. And secondly, companies need to continue to make their investments as Louis [ph] they need to continue to invest in strategic projects. The only difference is that Raizen's dividends encompasses dividends. When they go up, part of that will go…