Earnings Labs

Cosan S.A. (CSAN)

Q3 2023 Earnings Call· Tue, Nov 14, 2023

$4.18

+4.76%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

+0.41%

1 Week

+0.07%

1 Month

+5.77%

vs S&P

+1.18%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for waiting, and welcome to Cosan's Earnings Conference Call for the Third Quarter 2023. Simultaneous translation will be available during the session. To use it, please click on the interpretation button at the bottom of the screen and choose your preferred language, Portuguese or English. Those listening to the video conference in English, you have the option to mute the original audio in Portuguese by clicking on mute original audio. The video conference is being recorded and will be available on the company's IR website at cosan.com.br where the complete material of our earnings call can be found. You can also download the presentation in English from the chat icon. During the company's presentation, all participants will have their microphones disabled. The question-and-answer session will start after the presentation. Please note that the information contained in this presentation and in statements that may be made during the earnings call regarding Cosan's business prospects, projections and operating and financial goals constitute the beliefs and assumptions of the company's management as well as information currently available. Forward-looking considerations are not a guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Overall, economic conditions, market conditions and other operating factors may affect Cosan's future performance and lead to results that differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. Today, with us, we have Mr. Luis Henrique Guimarães, Ricardo Lewin and Ms. Ana Luísa Perina. I will now turn it over to Mr. Ricardo Lewin.

Ricardo Lewin

Management

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Cosan's earnings conference call for the third quarter of 2023. I’ll start my speaking highlighting the stellar operational performance across all businesses, achieving several record-high figures, which will be detailed throughout in the call. The robust growth in the pro forma EBITDA in the quarter and the evolution of net profit reflect the disciplined execution of our long-term strategic plan, combining organic growth with the maturity of business acquisitions. As for investments, they were in line with the annual plan directed to the efficient maintenance of operations, in addition to the capital allocation in the portfolio structural projects, ensuring the execution of the contracted growth. Regarding risk management that we reinforced it on our last Cosan Day, we continue with our liability management process, always seeking to optimize terms, costs and liquidity. Before going to the results of each company, I want to highlight the evolution of our brand that we launched during Cosan Day in September, in which we showed how was a portfolio manager that invests in business with replicable assets, makes it happens by investing in areas with the highest potential in Brazil. On the ESG journey, Cosan became part of the each of backs of the page index portfolio, the first diversity index in Latin America focused on the pillars of gender and race, in line with the evolution of the company's diversity and inclusion agenda. It's worth highlighting that Cosan has two women in the Board of Directors and one on the Board of Executives, in addition to public commitments at Cosan and businesses to increase and maintain the participation of women in their leadership. This quarter, I'm also proud to share some of the recognitions we received which are the result of the strength of our business and…

Operator

Operator

Before we begin the Q&A session, I would like to turn it over to Mr. Luis Henrique Guimarães. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. And I'm very happy to open this call talking about people, a key point to our group in the last two years. As you've heard in our presentation, there are many talents being promoted and being moved from company to company in the holding company and this has been well thought out, and it's focused on our priorities and focuses to execute our business plan and by allocating people's time as best as possible. It's also important to show you the strength of our partnerships, which have evolved in the last three years and how happy we are to have been able to hold on to our talent in-house. We've made many movements within the holding, within our own teams. So Nelson as Cosan's CEO makes all sense given Nelson's results within the group. He's very familiar with our businesses. He has already worked at the holding company. So it only reiterates that he is the right person. And we did a very similar thing in 2016 at Comgas time. He has our full faith to lead Cosan’s business for the next two years. And we'll have an increased focus on our portfolio, including divestment in certain assets, as we've mentioned a few calls and during Cosan Day. So Rodrigo will become our CFO. He has vast experience in many of the sectors we operate in. I've been watching him. And during his time at Petrobras. I was on the other side of the table. And since he announced he was stepping down we made sure he joined our group, and how is becoming…

Operator

Operator

Now we will begin our Q&A. And to ask questions, please click on the raise hand icon at the bottom of your screen to join the queue. At the end, there will be a prompt to unmute yourself, you should then mute yourself to ask your question. Please ask one question at a time. To ask questions in English, please ask them in writing through the Q&A button. Our first question is from Isabella Simonato Sell-side Analyst, Bank of America. Please go ahead, Isabella.

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. Before anything else, congratulations on all the changes. And actually, my question is about that. Lewin, I know you're going through a new VP position with a different perspective to Cosan Investments. But as you always say, Cosan as a portfolio manager of the group, including your assets and the assets you might acquire down the line. So I'd like to hear what's on your mind? What are your first thoughts in this new position? And Luis, you will be stepping down as an Executive. You'll be devoting your time to the Board and Vale's Board, which I imagine will take up a lot of your time. And also, I'd like to hear from you how you see your next step is coming back as an Executive an option. You've always said that at Vale's Board, you are keeping up with the operations on a daily basis. So how has that been? Luis Henrique Guimarães: I'll start. Thank you for your questions. The first question about the organization. You're very familiar with how we do things Isabella. We always work as a team. And we have to give people the direction to make sure that we have discipline. And here at the holding company, we have always worked as a team. So Lewin will be working with Marcelo, who has a key role in allocating capital and thinking about the future of the group. And he will be working with Cosan Investments, Nelson, the rest of the team, the Board, I'll turn it over to him in a minute. But we have proven that we have the horsepower, the people we need to make it happen. We're not that worried about titles, positions, hierarchy. And I think that is what has set our group apart in the last two years. We don't need to have any complex political dynamics. What matters is having, people who trust each other, who work as a team. And who have shared missions that are important. It's like Vale's deal. We put lots of resources together. Leo was leading that before 11. We brought other companies together and set up a team to do it together. So it's much more about people working together as a team. And the same applies to me. I'll be in a different role sitting at the Board. And I'll continue to work with the team. I'll be part of the Corporate Structure with my colleagues and helping however, I can on specific matters. So don't think of us as a conventional multinational organization with different boxes and titles and positions. Think of us as a group of people, working together, trusting each other with a common shared purpose and pursuing the best opportunities available. Lewin?

Ricardo Lewin

Management

Yeah. Well said. Luis Henrique Guimarães: I think in the last couple of years, Leo, myself and the whole team, have been working closely together. We complement one another. And we rely on each other to make decisions. We have been evolving in portfolio analysis in the last couple of years. We're not just saying that to the market. No. And we will continue to do that with Nelson, with Marcelo, Leo, myself, Maria Rita will continue to progress on our portfolio analysis and relying on each other to make the best decisions.

Isabella Simonato

Analyst

Very clear. Congratulations. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Next question is from Thiago Duarte, sell-side analyst from BTG. Please go ahead, Thiago.

Thiago Duarte

Analyst

Thank you. Hi. Good afternoon everyone. Thanks for taking my question. First of all, congratulations to the four of you, the four of you who are taking part in the call and everyone else, after so many years, it's wonderful to see the company's ability to generate retain and promote talent. It's not the first time. And it's always wonderful to see that from our side. So my first question is about that. Obviously, Isabella's question already covered most of it. But I'd like to talk about timing. Why now? We've just seen a considerable capital allocation cycle. You're buying a stake at Vale. Compass accelerated growth and rising so powerful. So everything is consolidated and now we see that change. I don't know if there's anything you can add Hard to believe it's a coincidence. I don't know if there's anything you can add. Hard to believe it’s a coincidence. So I don’t know if there is anything you can add to that end. Why now? Why making such a big change now. And to me, thinking about Luis without playing an executive role is quite curious, quite -- I'm intrigued. I don't know if you could talk about it from that perspective. And my second question is about results. I'd like to talk about Compass. I don't know if Nelson will be able to talk now. Otherwise, my question is to Luis and Lewin. Fantastic results, especially when it comes to marketing and services. And I think it's surprised not only us, but you as well, so much so that you've revised your guidance. So, is the first quarter where this split has happened at this magnitude. Could you talk a little bit about the size of the opportunity? Do you think this will happen again looking forward?…

Thiago Duarte

Analyst

Great. Thank you, Luis.

Operator

Operator

Thanks. The next question is from André Vidal, sell-side analysts from XP. Please go ahead, André. André Vidal: Hi, Luis, hi, Nelson [ph], hi, Lewin. Congratulations on all the changes, the results and the guide. I think that's another stage -- another step towards improving your disclosure to the market. I'd like to talk about move results, once again, great results, but we don't have a lot of detail about that business. We don't know what the details are that led to those results. So the increase in margin, was it driven by a specific region? Was it about synergies? Was it because of more macro results that affected the sector as a whole. Could you explain what led to this excellent results and how you see the future now looking at 2024, can we expect something similar to this third quarter or do you see any improvements taking place next year? And as a follow-up question, I'd like to hear about Compass. Next year the terminal will go into operation and you have new supply to Comgas. So do you think there will be any room to keep the generic trading volumes as you did this semester? Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thanks, Andre, for your questions. I'll start with Move. So there was a combination of many elements there. Let me take a step back, move really set up a good management and operation system. It's unique. It works very well across all geographies. All plants have surpassed their goals and have grown compared to last year. Europe is the smaller region, but the US did really well, especially when it comes to margin and capturing synergies and volume. We're working hard on cleaning our portfolio, just like we did in Brazil to remove low-margin clients in adequate sectors going…

Operator

Operator

Thanks. Next question is from Gabriel Barra, a sell-side analyst from Citi. Please go ahead, Gabriel.

Gabriel Barra

Analyst

Hi. Thanks for answering my question. I would like to reiterate the congratulations. There are many names to mention, but you've done a fantastic job. My questions are more about Compass and a couple of topics I'd like to hear more about, please. First, the regas terminal, we're coming close to commissioning time now. If you could update us on how that's going, how can we -- when can we expect the first cargoes and what's the entry time line looking like? And about biogas, also, the company has made a couple of moves on biogas first with Horizon, then with Sao Martinho during the offtake for future production. So can we expect that to be a trend? Will Compass become a major off-taker of that biogas, given its potential in that sector here in Brazil, especially when it comes to sugar and ethanol because there's a lot to be explored there. So I'd like to understand a bit more about the future of that business. And as a follow-up question about the monetization of your contract with Total, could you explain how that monetization mechanism worked given that the regas terminal is not in operation yet. And it looks like it's a small fraction of the hole. So if we consider monetization calculation and looking forward to results and the 12 million contract you have with Total, those are my three points. Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Okay. I'll start by the easiest one, which is the last one. So we took the molecule and sold it where the price was highest, given that the world has certain opportunities at certain times and being able to allocate that molecule at different times, in different geographies for different prices. So it was just about an arbitration between the price you're…

Gabriel Barra

Analyst

Great Luis, very clear. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thanks. Next question is from Monique Greco sell-side analyst from Itaú BBA. Please go ahead, Monique.

Monique Greco

Analyst

Hi everyone. Good afternoon. Thank you for answering my questions. Congratulations on your new position. I wish you success. And thank you for the sum of the parts template. It's very helpful. I have a question about Compass. Could you comment on Edge's business model, that's the brand you've created to consolidate your marketing and services activities. What led to the company to adopt that model? Why do you think -- what kind of benefits do you think it will bring having a brand to consolidate those activities? And what kind of changes can we expect in the way Compass reports its results or guidance because of Edge. And a company about the holding -- question about the holding company about capital allocation. You've openly talked about your willingness to buy back shares given the discounts on share prices. But we haven't seen any buyback records in your current program. So it would be great to hear about how you’re thinking about buybacks. Thank you. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Hi thanks, Monique, for your questions. Well, Edges' model is the same thing we've done at Move and Risen combustibles in the last year. So understanding the market, segmenting the market, choosing the clients having the ability to distribute having capacity, having a competitive product, infrastructure and the ability to source and meet the demand. That's basically it. Once things are regulated and conditions are right, then we can go to different places that don't have the infrastructure or we'll have it in the next two years. So if you want to think about the kind of business, we're doing it very similar to moves and raise and combustibles. The only difference is that there is no retail. So it's a B2B business, but it does cover many different kinds of clients,…

Monique Greco

Analyst

Okay. Great. Thanks, Luis. Thank you, Lewin. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Next question is from Matheus Enfeldt sell-side analyst from UBS. Please go ahead, Matheus.

Matheus Enfeldt

Analyst

Hi. Good afternoon, Luis and Lewin. Like everybody else, I'd like to congratulate you and wish you good luck in your new positions. In the revision process of the subsidiary assets and the holding company's stake at Vale. Where are you in the process? Have you already looked at all the opportunities to raise funds or to have a more active portfolio management. Do you think you'll be leveraging during the portfolio revision process? And a more general question, considering the company's reach, how do you see the latest changes in regulations and legislation in the industry. The tax reform is an important point, but there's still a considerable amount of uncertainty. The gas market is developing but there's still some regulatory obstacles. So what are your points of concern? What are you looking at more closely? And -- as a follow-up question to Thiago and Isa. do partnership role in the management succession process and these recent changes, how do you see that? Will it bring more stability -- or will it give the group strategy more longevity

Ricardo Lewin

Management

I'll answer the first question, Matheus, and then I'll turn it over to Luis. The way we analyze our portfolio is continues. So we are constantly assessing the portfolio, both at the subsidiaries and the holding company. An example of that, are the acquired companies from Petrobras, five of them, we have announced will be sold as part of our portfolio changes. And we will announce any other changes as they happen. I'll turn it over to Luis now. Luis Henrique Guimarães: So let me talk about the regulatory issues. Obviously, the tax reform is one step. We believe it to be a positive thing for the country. The simplification is positive. We are concerned about all the exceptions to the rule. It's important to the fuels. Obviously, we're concerned about what was built and what's being discussed in terms of imports via the Manaus free trade zone when it comes to fuels. And there seems to be a trend to increase taxes in general, and that obviously reduces company's abilities to invest. But we do believe that the balance between the executive branch, the legislative and the Ministry of Finance will come to a conclusion that will lead to tax balance. The dollar has been helping, inflation rate has been helping. So hopefully, a tax balance will bring interest rates down. But there's still around to the tax reform. As you know, it's gone back to the House for final adjustments and then it will be submitted to Congress approval during a joint session between the Senate and the House. Obviously, we hope that any distortions in a democratic process will be dealt with and hopefully, we'll have an IVA or a VAT like we see in many other countries at a competitive rate. And hopefully, that will help the country to grow. And an important element is that it decreases the collection hiatus, up to 25% of taxes that should be paid on paid, so there's a gap in the country. And hopefully, the tax reform will bring our industry and the country, a reduction in that tax gap. And hopefully, the tax rate will be lower a few years from now because everybody will pay their taxes. And obviously, all the flexibility we have come from the team working to make sure that Cosan a successful. And Cosan is its people. We're still learning. Our model is still evolving, but it's been proven that this model allows the group to work together without any bureaucracy, with a high degree of trust and fully focused on the group's results as opposed to individual results.

Matheus Enfeldt

Analyst

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from Bruno Montanari, sell side analyst from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead, Bruno.

Bruno Montanari

Analyst

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. Congratulations everyone, on all the changes. I have a follow-up question about Compass and a question about Vale. At Compass, going back to the contract, there's practically no competition in the market right now. So it allows you to have great trading margins. I think that contract is from a while back when the LNG price was at a completely different level. So do you think other cargos will be able to have the same margin, not in the next few months, but thinking more about the mid to the long run, so we can think about what kind of return might be possible in that business. As for Vale, there have been two color settlements, same size, 0.1%. How has Cosan's investment in Vale been maturing? And can we consider other settlements in the colorized structure from now on? And will they be similar to the previous settlements, if you could give us some more color on that? That would be great. Thanks. Luis Henrique Guimarães: First of all, yes, there is competition. Let's just make sure everybody is on the same page. The competition with other sources of natural gas in Brazil and abroad as well as other types of gas, diesel. It is a competitive business, but we do have the advantage of being able to look at Brazil and what's happening in the rest of the world. We have a great relationship with Total a very relevant player in the global market, and that allows us to have a better allocation of this molecule throughout the contract as opportunities arise. It's impossible to predict future margins, but now the company and the team are fully focused on finding the best opportunities to allocate the molecule. I can't give you…

Bruno Montanari

Analyst

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

We'll conclude the Q&A session. I will now turn it over to Mr. Luis Henrique for his final remarks. Luis Henrique Guimarães : Before my final remarks, I'm going to turn it over to Nelson so he can say a few words. So we can begin our transition and to introduce him to all of you. Over to you, Nelson.

Unidentified Company Representative

Analyst

Good afternoon, everyone. It's a pleasure to be back here with you after close to eight years being away from the earnings release conference calls, obviously, Cosan in a very different place now. And now we are focusing on the transition. There are no changes in direction or strategy. We'll continue to focus on the safety of our people, compliance, internal processes and focusing on what we have to deliver until the end of the year. As of next year, Rodrigo and I will be here with you during our quarterly calls to continue to talk to you, because it's really helpful to the success of our company. So see you in the next quarter. Luis Henrique Guimarães: Thank you, Nelson. I wish you success on your journey, and it will be a huge pleasure to go through this transition with you. So another solid quarter, great results across the portfolio, very positive prospects for the end of the year, we'll be within our guidance, and we'll go into 2024 full steam ahead in all of our priority sectors with all of our companies and a robust project for all of them, highly qualified team, reenergized for the beginning of the year and very positive prospects, betting on decarbonization and the comparative competitive advantages of Brazil. It's been a pleasure to be with you for the last four years. I'll be here with Nelson and the team in a different position, but I wish you Rodrigo and Nelson huge success. Thank you for the partnership. Thanks, Marcelo, Rita. Thank you, Paula, she's not here during the call, but she is always with us and the work we do to take Cosan's agenda forward. Thank you to the market for your support. Thank you for your criticism. Thank you for your suggestions and thank you for all the conversations. I don't think we'll talk before the end of the year. So have a great end of the year. I hope all your funds, your investments and your analysis do well, and I wish you peace and happiness in 2024. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Cosan's third quarter 2023 earnings video conference is now concluded. For further questions, please contact the Investor Relations department. Thank you so much for joining us and have a great afternoon.