Bowen Diehl
Chief Executive Officer
So let me correct part of what you said, Chris, and thanks for the question by the way. You said that we said that one of the more attractive returns in the market is in the upper middle market. That’s actually not correct. What I meant to convey is that every market is very competitive; like I said spreads tight, leverage level high, lots of add backs. And so the way to play in that market is to take small pieces of a lot of loans within the universe of loans that we find attractive and basically good fundamental businesses. Take small pieces so that you have a very granular portfolio, so if any one of them doesn't do well, it doesn't move the needle. So that's the granularity the key. Then efficiently levering it in a senior loan fund, which as you know, a very low leverage CLO entity, it’s not tend to one leverage its 2:1 leverage or less. And so just take a little bite from a bunch of loans, and so that reflects -- that looks like a senior loan fund. So we think the senior loan fund -- we still we think that's a nice vehicle for us. But as you can see, the assets really aren’t growing all that much, because we’re not driving growth in that fund, because we’re not really seeing the value to drive growth in the upper middle market in our portfolio; so if the environment stays like it is today and the levers were to increase, we would look at our portfolio, and say okay, we see more value in the lower middle market now, that’s assumption, that’s fact one; fact two then is what is the optimal leverage on a portfolio that is in fact largely lower middle market and of course, largely first lien. And so we think that leverage could be above the 0.8, we don't think that's 2:1 leverage. Some BDCs are effectively getting 2:1 leverage to FDIC's. We do think the lower middle market first lien asset class, certainly a performing asset class, could handle more leverage than the 0.8:1. But I wouldn’t assume that in our leverage calculation that we’re going to turbo-charge our positions in the upper middle market. Because if you think about the number of deals we see that we like and the size holds that we want to take in those deals in the upper middle market, they fit nicely in the senior loan fund. So we’re putting new deals with senior loan funds, at the same time, we get recapped out of deals in the senior loan funds with senior loan funds hanging out at the 220 to 225 asset size, maybe it grows a little bit from there. But I wouldn’t assume that because we’re adjusting leverage that we're going all the sudden put a whole lot more money to work in the upper middle market at least in the environment we're in right now.