Earnings Labs

Cintas Corporation (CTAS)

Q1 2008 Earnings Call· Thu, Sep 27, 2007

$173.27

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Please stand by. Good day everyone and thank you for you patience and standing by and welcome to the Cintas Quarterly Earning Results Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded. At this time, for opening remarks and introductions, I will turn things over to Mr. Bill Gale, Senior Vice President of Finance and Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead, sir.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Good evening and thank you for joining us tonight. With me this evening is Mike Thompson, Cintas's Vice President and Treasurer. The Company reported revenues and net income inline with its plan for the year. Revenues increased 6% over the first quarter of last fiscal year to $969 million. Earnings per share were $0.51 this year compared to $0.53 in the first quarter of last year. Last year’s numbers included a credit, due to the adoption of FAS 123R with a change in the forfeiture rate. This year’s results include a more normalized expense related to share based payments as well as higher legal and professional services. Additionally, as we have explain previously, Cintas has adopted a new sales organization, that in the short-run will have an increased investment in selling expense, but should result in higher growth in all business segments. Net income was $81 million, representing 8.4% of revenue. Rental gross margins were approximately the same as last year, while other services gross margins continue to improve as the emerging businesses are First Aid & Safety and Document Management continue to grow at very exciting rates. In fact, we have expanded our segment data to give more visibility to these newer businesses as they are having a larger impact on our results. As you review the supplement data included in our release, please note the split of other services to the following. Uniform direct sales, which also includes our catalog business sold on our rental routes, First Aid & Safety and Fire protection and Document Management. Mike will talk more about these in his comments. Organic growth in our rental business did improve modestly from the fourth quarter last year. We expect that organic growth should continue to improve as we move throughout the year barring any significant…

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Thanks Bill and good evening everyone. Total revenues were $969.1 million for the quarter, a 6% increase over that reported in the prior year. Internal growth was 4.2% during the first quarter, which is comparable to our internal growth rate for the fourth quarter of fiscal, 2007. Weakness in our direct sales business was offset by improved internal growth in our repetitive service businesses including our Rental Uniforms and Ancillary Products operating segment. As a reminder, our first quarter had 66 work days, the same number of work days as the first quarter of fiscal 2007. For the remainder of fiscal 2008, the work days will be as follows; for the second quarter, 65 work days which is the same as the second quarter from fiscal 2007. Third quarter will have 65 work days which is one more work day than the third quarter of fiscal 2007 and 65 days… work days in the fourth quarter which is one less work day in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2007. As Bill mentioned, we now report our results in four operating segments as well as the corporate segment. The largest of the operating segments is our Rental Uniforms and Ancillary Products segment. Previously titled rentals this segment reflects the rental and servicing of uniforms and other garments, mats, mops, shop towels and other related items. We also provide restroom and Hygiene products and services within the segment. We are the largest provider of both, corporate identity uniforms and facility services in North America. No change has been made to this segment other than we have renamed it the segment to more properly describe the services provided within it. Uniform ancillary product revenues were $710.4 million for the quarter compared to $687.7 million in the first quarter last year, a 3.3% increase.…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions]. And first with JP Morgan we go to Mike Fox.

Michael Fox - J.P. Morgan

Analyst

Good afternoon. Just a couple of quick ones. When you look at the Fire Protection business and the Document Management business, you talked about the margins should increase as you gain national scale. Can you talk about how bigger geographic presence you guys have today and how long you think it will take to get national?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Certainly. In Document Management, we are in approximately 80 of the top 100 markets, obviously expanding very quickly in that space. Fire went approximately 60 of the top 100 markets. So, as we continue to expand, we will get further acquisitions to enhance that and then also greenfield startups where there is not an acquisition opportunity available.

Michael Fox - J.P. Morgan

Analyst

Again with regard to the document management business, have you noticed any increase or decrease in the multiple that you guys have been paying?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Probably, they have come down a bit, Mike, as we have basically, I think, established the presence in the major city that we wanted and bought some of the better companies. Now, as we look for other acquisition opportunities, we can take a little harder line and I think that you would probably, these are multiples down slightly from what they have been initially.

Michael Fox - J.P. Morgan

Analyst

Okay. And then with regard to the international acquisition, can you give us an idea of kind of a timeframe what you guys are looking at as far as when you might grow that business or start to make more acquisitions there?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Well, we are going to certainly be opportunistic in looking at when things become available. I would say, we don’t have a definitive plan that we want to be certain size in any particular period of time, but we are very aggressive in trying to understand the market over there. The management team that came with this acquisition is very well known on continent in this business and therefore will be very helpful to us as we expand. And I would say, it's just a matter of time and the right opportunities presenting themselves because we are committed pretty much to moving forward with this business over there.

Michael Fox - J.P. Morgan

Analyst

Okay. And can you talk about, you guys have been… a lot of other… a lot of businesses for a long time and this is certainly one of your newer businesses, and venturing to Europe. Can you talk about, why you chose to go into Europe with the Document Management business, as apposed to some of the other businesses that you are in?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Yes. The primary reason, Mike is the fact that the laws in Europe regarding privacy are just slightly behind with the laws in the U.S. and Canada have been. Therefore we believe, we are really in the forefront as this industry really starts taking hold in Europe. The other reason for doing document management is that as evidenced by what we have been able to achieve the first… the last couple of years in Document Management here. We believe that it is a very rapid growing company, a very rapid growing industry that we can take advantage of, doesn’t require significant capital investment and is a pretty quick start up as far as the ability to obtain, enough business to start making profits really quickly.

Michael Fox - J.P. Morgan

Analyst

Okay, great. Thanks a lot.

Operator

Operator

Next we move on to Mike Schneider with Robert W. Baird.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Hi, good evening guys.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Hi, Mike.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

First, I guess, you had mentioned you are suspending the share repurchase program as a result of the strategic review. I guess that’s news to me. Can you tell us what you were exploring and indeed what you concluded?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Mike as we have stated in the past, I really can’t get into any details or any specifics. What I can tell you is that we did spend time looking at various alternatives and now that we have finished that. We are ready to reenter the market in our own open purchases like we under the authorization that we have.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

So, the review is complete and presumably no actions that would interfere with buying back stock?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Well, at least for right now it is and I think when you say complete, obviously, it’s come to a conclusion that enables us to get back into the market, but our Board is always committed to looking for ways to enhance share holder value.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. And on the organic growth in the rental division, take that as slightly sequentially. Can you give us a sense when you look at the components of growth, was that primarily driven by new sales account growth, accelerating sequentially?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Yes, yes. Michael, I would say that the other drivers, when you take lost business at stops and price increases, I would say that’s very comparable to the fourth quarter in nature. And I would say that the growth is predominantly from the new business increase.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. And looking forward now, this Project One Team, as it relates just to the rental division. What are those factors do you expected to have the most impact, because I presume they could impact, certainly attrition rates and new business sales. But I am curious as to what you are targeting to experience the biggest benefit from Project One Team?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Yes. I think it is going to affect all the components. I think the first one that we are targeting, obviously is the new business side because that’s where the focus one with the new sales organization, but certainly as we talk from the past, a significant reason to go to this organization was to allow our local management teams to focus on the servicing of customers and looking at ways to lower the amount of lost business and stops that are occurring. So, we hope to see it across the Board, but I would say, if you had to rank them the new business would be the first driver there?

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. And then kind of different way, when you look at your different product lines now, what product like do you think stands the benefit most from Project One Team?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

I think out of the gate first, it’s the other services emerging businesses because you are bringing a lot of customers to that with Fire and Document Management especially, Fire. If you have a lot of customers that we have that you can use that service when you have thousand business customers, most of this are in a rental business as you know. So, I think out of the gate those emerging businesses should have the best opportunity, but we also believe this new sales organization… for the fact that we talked about previously are going to benefit all of the divisions.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. Then final question on Rental, you mentioned the sales force attrition or internal where it was below historical levels and that productivity was improving, but is productivity actually back to historic norms or above or below it?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Productivity is I would say slightly above historical levels but you got to look at… depending on how you cut it with the tenure of the sales force. You can’t look at us at sales reps within their first year of higher and really get a field because that they are showing a base of nine to 12 months as you know.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

So, in other words, Mike, you are saying that the more tenured sales people are achieving productivity level today that are higher than what they were historically?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Right.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

But because of the mix of our sales people, you know, we have a lot of newer sales people, so it hard to drive conclusion on the total sales.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Yes, especially, when we promote a lot of those manager… sales reps in the managerial type of positions.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay, that’s helpful. And then switching out the services and thank you for the detail on the segmentation… very helpful. When you look year-over-year, the First Aid and Safety margins have basically been flat just over 10% on an operating basis, yet Document Management is more nearly doubled say from 5% to 11%, can you give us a sense as to what that will look like going forward? Is there some reasons structurally that First Aid has yet to have a gain leverage or is there some reason that Document Management would maybe experience less leverage going forward?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

I would say that really the movement within the First Aid, Fire and Safety business, you have got a lot of fire locations that are coming online and we hope to increase the profitability there. I think as you can see we believe that the Document Management business is a very strong business, both from a growth and a profitability standpoint. Well, I continue to skyrocket each and others, it’s going to be upper limit obviously, but as we have been able to gain scale a lot quicker in that business just because of the effect businesses it is than we have in the Fire Protection Services business.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. Thank you again.

Operator

Operator

Move on to Brandt Sakakeeny with Deutsche Bank.

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Just, I have got a couple quick house keeping items. First, do you have the stock comp for the quarter?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

I am sorry, I missed that. Can you repeat?

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Yes, do you have the stock compensation charge for the quarter?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Stock compensation?

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Yes. Please.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

It’s about $2 million.

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Okay, great. And then, obviously, you have done a good job in cost control particularly given what we have seen in fuel prices any color there? Are you able to pass those fuel price increases on to customers through better pricing or absorbing it or just sort of managing that better?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

The fuel price systems sales are about comparable to the first quarter of last year. We were at about 3.4% both in the first quarter of last year and the first quarter of this year. So, we haven’t seen any appreciable change from what we have experienced. In fact, it was about 3.4% in the fourth quarter of this last fiscal year. So, as a result, I would tell you that we were able a year ago to pass on… a year to 18 months ago to pass on some of these cost increases through to our customers. And that’s why our price increases were a little bit higher as we talked through in fiscal ’06. Right now though the cost of fuel are basically comparable to what they had been. So, there really hasn’t been a dramatic change there.

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Okay, great. And then I think you talked to the ratio being flattish I think relative to the prior quarter. Did you see any behavior either in the months that might make you think that either things were improving or perhaps eroding a little bit at all and the numbers or was it even possible to get that granular?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

We look at it every week and I would tell you based on my review; there is not enough fluctuation to really tip say there is a directional change in any one month versus the other.

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Okay, great. Finally, I guess any potential impact or color on the GM strike. I mean, I know obviously, autos are a big percentage, although, it’s not necessarily the OEMs. Do you expect anything favorable to come out of that or potentially unfavorable?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

We had very little business with General Motors. I am sure we had some business with some of their suppliers but the impact is negligible to Cintas. Going forward, I guess the health of the auto industry if it’s improved as a result of this settlement will certainly help our business here in the U.S. and Canada.

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Okay, great. I am sorry; finally, can you remind us what you had left on the authorization?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

$420 million.

Brandt Sakakeeny - Deutsche Bank Securities

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Now, onto your question from Scott Schneeberger, with CIBC World Markets

Scott Schneeberger - CIBC World Markets

Analyst

Just a question on the pricing environment out there for Uniform Rental, are you seeing… you said it looks like solid sequential improvement in the organic growth. What do you see on the pricing front there?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

I would say it’s a very competitive marketplace, especially, with large national type customers.

Scott Schneeberger - CIBC World Markets

Analyst

Okay. Thanks. And I guess looking down at the cost line; you had stated that heightened legal expenses had an impact in the quarter. Is that union related, perhaps related to your incident in Tulsa? Is that something I guess bottom line question here is that something that’s going to persist, how should we think about that going forward?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Good question, Scott. It’s a… it’s basically all of the above, it had some costs associated with the incident in Tulsa, as well as the law suits that we disclosed in our 10-K

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

There was a heightened period of discovery this past several months. So, I think that could have some impact on it. However, I would say that legal expenses are going to continue to be high as we… as these cases move themselves through the court system. And then we had some other professional services that we incurred that would probably not be repeated, so I would hope that overall we would see an improvement in the SG&A as we move forward through the year.

Scott Schneeberger - CIBC World Markets

Analyst

All right. Thanks. And one final one if I could. It sounds like a little bit of a slowdown in Uniform sales, could you just give a little bit more color? You mentioned it could be lumpy year-to-year, and I think you indicated you think it’s going to be a little softer for foreseeable future. Just kind of a little bit bigger picture color there? Thanks.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Yes it… we certainly are a little disappointed in the results in the direct sale Uniforms. That is the one area that surprised us a little bit coming out of the gate here this fiscal year. It looks like that many of the large lodging and casino gaming type businesses are not doing as aggressive a roll out as we initially had planned. So, our hope is that the… as we move throughout the year, we will be able to get some of that back. But it’s one of those businesses that is very choppy. We talked about that over the years, so we hope that we will see an improvement as we go throughout the year. But right now, I can’t say that for certainly that that’s going to happen.

Scott Schneeberger - CIBC World Markets

Analyst

Thanks very much.

Operator

Operator

And now we will take a question from Bruce Simpson with William Blair

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Hi guys.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Hi Bruce.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

First on SG&A, you talked about that returning to a more predictable level. And obviously, it was real highs as a percentage of sales for the quarter. So, when you talk about more traditional, more predictable levels, where we headed is it reasonable to think that’s kind of back in the 27 range?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

What we can say is we think they will improve as we move through the year, just like when selling cost with additional investment in that area that doesn’t come right back down, you need the revenues to grow. So, we think that will improve as we go forward, we also think as Bill mentioned, that we think the administrative portion of SG&A will begin to trend down. I think potentially on a 27 range… between 27 and 28, I would say, as we progress through the year, but it’s not as quick drop as you know.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. And in terms of the absolute dollars, typically… sequentially is your progress through the years, its at least flat and usually going up quarter-to-quarter, would you still expect that or was there enough of this kind of one-time professional expenses that inflated in this quarter that’s going to come out?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Yes. I would say there is… there has been enough of that to say that you are going to see a significant decline in the absolute dollars. I would look at it more on percent-to-sale basis.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. And then turning focus to the European acquisition, moving forward, I mean, should we expect this to be a real foothold that you would relatively consistently look to a acquire your way throughout geographically… throughout Europe? Or is it rather this is kind of a just a toehold and you could let a half a year or even a year go by as you begin to understand the culture and financial dynamics of working over there without doing another acquisition?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Bruce, I would say we want to be sure that we don’t make the mistake and get too aggressive over there. But on the other hand, I would tell you that we are… we have got a list of potential candidates for acquisition and if we can meet with the sellers at reasonable prices, we are not afraid to acquire a few more operations because we have a lot of confidence and the management team that came with us, with the acquisition in the Netherlands and we feel that, if we find the right opportunity at the right prices, we will certainly move forward.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. Now, I think in the past you always indicated that you really didn’t think the Europe was particularly for the ground for Uniform Rental operation just because of the differences in economy and cultural Uniform and opportunities, so forth, is that changing? Or should we expect the growth in Europe to be in your emerging areas rather than on traditional Uniform?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

But what excites us about Europe is things like Document Management but also facilities services. So, while we may not be as bullish on Uniform Rental in Europe, we are very bullish on the facility services, opportunities that exists, both in Europe and as well in the U.K. In fact, in some case, in some respects the facility services business may have a little bit more potential over in Europe than it necessarily does here in US and we are very happy about the opportunities we have in U.S. So, we think that the Document Management and potentially, facility services will be the big opportunities for us in the short run.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Facility services still being reported in your Rental Uniform and Ancillary Products and by that you mean like Hygiene?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Yes.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. And that last thing, can you talk about the growth of Hygiene business is kind of buried within that bigger segment and in particular the UltraClean that had been grown in the pretty exponential rates and have you hit a certain level of maturity in that business?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Well, we certainly have the rate… the rate of growth in that business has slowed somewhat as it has a bigger base but it still continues to grow. The Hygiene and UltraClean are growing faster than the Uniform Rental business is growing. I mean, we are still seeing the headwinds of the shift in types of labor that exists in the U.S. and therefore it is having an impact on our Garment Rental Programs. But the Hygiene in the UltraClean businesses are certainly the factor growing pieces of it albeit on a much smaller base.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

So, when you told us earlier when you gave us… know that we got granularity on the operating segments, when you earlier gave us the organic growths rate, is that strictly beautiful rental or is that includes facility services?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

That includes facility service. That segment is exactly like used to be including all this. And that’s all with Rental segment.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

One of the things that we have is that we have is that, that business operates from the same facilities, the same management team. There is a lot of intertwining of that business together. So, we do not believe in the near future would be breaking that segment out any finer than what you are saying right now.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Can you tell us weather the Uniform Rental business alone is positive or negative growth?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Well, as I think if you could imply from my comments that certainly is the slower growing or flattish part of that business right now.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. Is it possible… I promise I will get off after this. Are you going to be able to give us historic information restated along these segment line or isn’t it possible? So, that we can compare year-on-year.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

We are just going to be doing at for the prior fiscal year and going forward. So, we are not going back beyond fiscal year ’07. But as we go through every quarter, we will show you not only the current quarter in fiscal year ’08 but also fiscal year ’07.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. But we will wait to each quarter to get it… you are not going to give us the full fiscal ’07 now?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Yes.

Bruce Simpson - William Blair

Analyst · William Blair

Okay. Thanks guys.

Operator

Operator

Next with Merrill Lynch, we have Michel Morin.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Yes. Good afternoon guys. First a quick one. The corporate line in the new segment data, why did assets drop 21%?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

That’s cash.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Okay. That’s a good answer. And then can you just on your Document Management plans, I think in your comments you mentioned that the focus was really on shredding and I just wanted to touch a bit more on that. Am I interpreting that correctly? Is the focus really on shredding or do you still have also a significant interest in pursuing the storage business?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

As I have said before, shredding is by far our immediate focus and the one that we are the most excited about. The storage side is intriguing to us and we have acquired a couple of operations but we have not expanded rapidly in that area as we have in the shredding side.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

And the storage operations you are referring to are the ones in Ohio.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Correct. We also have one right now in Indianapolis and a small one in Missouri. But, yes basically it’s in Ohio.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Great. That’s all I had. Thanks very much.

Operator

Operator

And now we will hear from Gary Bisbee with Lehman Brothers.

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

Hi guys. Mike, in the segment detail commentary you gave… you specifically mentioned the desire to make acquisitions in first day in Document, but didn’t say that in Uniforms, is that a signal of everything or is that just--?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

I think as we have mentioned in the past. We are being a little more conservative in the Uniform Rental space. I think we still look at all opportunities that are in that space. But again, we have a full geographic coverage in U.S. and Canada for Uniform models, so we can be a little more selective. But as we have shown about a year and a half ago, we bought Van Dyne Crotty. We saw a great opportunity and went after it and we still do make acquisitions in that space. But I tell you there our focus right now is on those emerging businesses, especially, Fire and Document Shredding. But again, we have a team that looks at all opportunities in all of our business lines and we will continue to make acquisitions one that can meet the thresholds with our rate of returns.

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

Okay. If you do go back as it sounds like you will, both purchasing stock, how are you planning to fund that with further commercial paper borrowing or--?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

We will evaluate that going forward. I think the commercial paper worked well for us over the last quarter. We had very attractive rates and had the good demand for it, something that we will obviously address. We have $600 million authorization in total work and our CP launch. So, we will have to do something at some point. If we do a lot but I think that’s something, we will just evaluate internally and obviously make a disclosure at that point in time when necessary.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Gary, and also, we do generate a lot of cash from operations and we will certainly use some of that and the second quarter tends to be a pretty good cash generator for us, so that will help us also. But it’s certainly our responsibility to look out for more permanent financing opportunities if they present themselves and I am sure Mike and I will be doing that.

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

Okay. So, it’s safe to assume this whole credit crunch that happened, you didn’t see your commercial paper rates sky rocket or anything that was undesirable?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Not at all. Not at all, it was very, very consistent for the quarter.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Remember we are pretty highly rated so…

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

Yes. And then I guess just one question on the segment data, and I will echo my thanks to you for giving this. I guess when you look at the document management, obviously there has been huge profitability gain over the last year and the gross margin is far and away the highest in the business. Can you give us some sense on a relative basis? How you think about the composition of cost of goods sold versus SG&A? And I know you are not going to tell me where you think the margin ultimately end up at maturity, but is there some sense that as you look at all the businesses, there is not really that much structural difference? And what costs going those two lines?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

I think you asked two things. One paper prices have been very solid, recently that helps, but then also you have to remember that in document shredding you don’t have material cost. You are paying a driver, you have a plan that’s essentially on wheels, if you are shredding it at customer’s location, so margins are improved, but you are paying more in the SG&A lines to run the business from our operation so to speak, from the management perspective and from the logistics perspective. But not every material cost can actually turn around selling the paper makes a difference when paper prices are higher, again, some benefit there. So, I think, we see that the margins in that business over the long-term will be above what we have been experiencing historically in our Uniform Rental business, but we are not commenting on how high they can go and… but we do think it’s very positive.

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

Okay. And then just on that last point. Can you help me understand exactly how the economics of that work around selling the paper on the back end? And how much of the profitability comes from that? The business nicely profitable without that or can you give me any metrics to help understand that?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

We won’t provide metrics on it obviously, but we can tell you is the way it operates is not only are you picking up a very saleable commodity. So you are turning back around either bailing it at room side or selling into recycler and when the demand for that product is very high like it is currently, you are essentially covering a lot of cost by selling that paper. Though it’s very, it’s positive at this point in time and it's a… we believe, we will continue to be positive.

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

And then just one last question on this, at any point, would you consider giving us CapEx on this segment data in addition to assets and all the other numbers you are giving?

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Yes, we are looking at that and I would say that we hope to provide more detail on the next quarter.

Gary Bisbee - Lehman Brothers

Analyst · Lehman Brothers

Okay, great. Thanks a lot.

Operator

Operator

Now we will take a question from Chris Gutek with Morgan Stanley.

Christopher Gutek - Morgan Stanley

Analyst · Morgan Stanley

Thanks, hi guys.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Hi, Chris.

Christopher Gutek - Morgan Stanley

Analyst · Morgan Stanley

Since your last call, I guess, it was about 18 seats and one could argue that's the macro outlook has moderated a bit and I guess in that context I am curious what is sort of embedded in the guidance to extent… reiterating the full fiscal year's revenue guidance. Have you in fact assumed that the economy soften a bit if so how much, is there something else in the business and self productivity or something else that’s ramping little bit better? We are on a better trajectory that might offset a slight macro softening since your last call.

William C. Gale - Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Chris, I would say that while we are… our original plan that we put together, we talked about in July upon which guidance was based, assumed that there would be a modest, continuing growth in the economy, but that the real impact that would happen to Cintas is that we would to accelerating organic growth as we move throughout the year as the Project One Team became more productive with regard to its ability to sell, generate new business to cross selling. But we still believe that is the case, while the overall economic environment, you say has moderated some. It really hasn’t changed our expect… from what our expectations were. It's certainly not a very rapid growth business, but we didn’t expect our rapid growth economy, but we didn’t expect that any way. So, my only concern is assuming there is not a recession, where we start to see a bunch of people being loosing their job and there is certainly no indication of that yet. I think that we feel pretty confident that the guy, the leads as it stands right now our guidance is solid and that we can achieve the guidance that we gave you.

Christopher Gutek - Morgan Stanley

Analyst · Morgan Stanley

Okay, fair enough. And then there as a follow-up on the notion of having done a… having completed a strategic review. It sounds like if I am interpreting your comments correctly, is that the… there is no intention of doing anything aggressively in the short-term here from a strategic perspective, but I am curious if there is anything still on the table short of what was considered as part of the strategic review for example try to monetize some of the real estate assets or changing some of your sourcing to buy uniform from Asia or anything else more from an operational perspective that could be incremental to margin improvement opportunities, you talked about in the past shy of the strategic review.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Well, I think our job is always to look it for opportunities and the Board’s jobs is always to look for opportunities to enhance shareholder value along with management. So, everything is always on the table and we are always looking for ways to improve things, but we don’t’ look… both long-term and short-term is to what makes sense. So, that’s continued activity that we are all involved with.

Christopher Gutek - Morgan Stanley

Analyst · Morgan Stanley

Okay. Fair enough. And finally, just a quick one. Your press release mentioned the FIN 48 and accretion of tax liability. Could you explain what’s driving that or what the issue is around it?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Sure. It’s actually with FIN 48 you are required to essentially analyze your tax reserves and has to be based on technical merits is to whether or not you can have something in your tax return that is separate from most on your financial statements. Based on that review, we essentially took our deferred tax liability, and if you look at the balance sheet, you essentially have that liability that was emplaced at May 31 and that has been broken down to the deferred tax asset and the accrued liabilities mainly in the long-term accrued liabilities, you will see that of the flip side portion of that come through essentially. And there was a $14 million additional reserve that we established through retained earnings, which is really based on the competition on technical merits of FIN 48. And so, I think when you go through that merit, you will see that that is essentially just a move from that deferred tax liability as of May 31 up until.

Christopher Gutek - Morgan Stanley

Analyst · Morgan Stanley

Okay, got it. Thanks.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions]. We have a follow-up from Mr. Morin with Merrill Lynch.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Yes, hi, again. Very quick one. Energy cost, how has that changed over the year… year-on-year?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Michel, we probably didn't hear it before, but I did say that it really has not changed at all over the last 15 months. It’s basically been about the same level of 3.4%.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Great. And do you have any plants, laundry facility either openings or greenfield openings or closings?

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

No closings, we certainly have a few plants that will be opened this year. I don’t have the exact number, but it’s probably along the lines of last year three or four.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Okay. And then finally, there has been a little bit crackdown on checking for social security mismatches, and I was wondering if that’s something that affected you at all.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Well, that’s been going on for couple of years and our operations periodically will receive a list from the social security administration saying that there are some mismatches and we work with our partners at those locations. Those partners are our employees, to try to help them resolve that situation. There certainly have been a few situations where the employee was using false identification and they are no longer with the organization as is required by law. But we certainly tried to assist our partners if those things are identified and often, we are able to work those things out with the social security administration.

Michel Morin - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch

Great, okay. Thank you and thanks again for the segment data as well.

Operator

Operator

And that is all the time we have for questions today. I will turn the conference back over to our presenters for any concluding or further comments they may have today.

Michael L. Thompson - Vice President and Treasurer

Management

Thank you all for joining us. I hope that there were no more questions. We did not put a limit on the timeframe, so usually that’s… its more that there were no more questions. But we appreciate all of you being here and we will look forward to talking to you in the… for our second quarter earnings during the week of December 17.

Operator

Operator

Once again, everyone this will conclude today’s program. We thank you for joining us. Please enjoy the rest of your day.