Operator
Operator
Welcome to Casella Waste Systems, Inc. Fourth Quarter 2015 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to introduce your first speaker for today Joe Fusco for opening remarks. You’ve the floor, sir.
Casella Waste Systems, Inc. (CWST)
Q4 2015 Earnings Call· Wed, Mar 2, 2016
$78.63
+0.65%
Same-Day
+8.22%
1 Week
+11.84%
1 Month
+6.91%
vs S&P
+3.26%
Operator
Operator
Welcome to Casella Waste Systems, Inc. Fourth Quarter 2015 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to introduce your first speaker for today Joe Fusco for opening remarks. You’ve the floor, sir.
Joe Fusco
Analyst
Thank you for joining us this morning and welcome. With us today are John Casella, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Casella Waste Systems, Ed Johnson, our President and Chief Operating Officer and Ned Coletta, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Today we will be discussing a 2015 fourth quarter and 2015 full-year results. These results were released yesterday afternoon. Along with a brief review of those results and an update on the company's activities and business environment, we will be answering your questions as well. But first, as you know, I must remind everyone that various remarks that we may make about the Company's future expectations, plans and prospects constitute forward-looking statements for the purposes of the SEC Safe Harbor Provisions, actual results may differ materially from those indicated by those forward-looking statements as a result of various important factors, including those discussed in our prospectus and other SEC filings. In addition, any forward-looking statements represent our views only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing our views as of any subsequent date. While we may elect to update forward-looking statements at some point in the future, we specifically disclaim any obligation to do so even if our estimates change and therefore you should not rely on those forward-looking statements as representing our views as of any date subsequent to today. Also during this call, we will be referring to non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP measures are not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. A reconciliation of the non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is available in the financial tables section of our earnings release which was distributed yesterday afternoon and is available in the investors section of our website at ir.casella.com and now I will turn it over to John Casella who will begin today's discussion. John?
John Casella
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
Thanks, Joe. Good morning, everyone and welcome to our fourth quarter 2015 conference call. We are very pleased with our fourth quarter and our fiscal year 2015 results. Ned, will go through the numbers in detail in a moment but first I would like to recognize that these strong results are testament to management's commitment and continued execution against our key strategies. All despite ongoing headwinds from lower recycled commodity prices and lowered energy prices. We hit the upper end of our adjusted EBITDA guidance and exceeded our free cash flow guidance for fiscal year 2015. If you remember, we first issued FY ‘15 guidance all the way back in June of 2014 and since that point we have raised our free cash flow guidance. I would also like to note that the first quarter of 2016 is off to a solid start driven by continued positive pricing and volume trends and a more normalized winter to helping to maintain more consistent levels of economic activity and operational efficiencies. Three years ago we laid out a comprehensive strategy to improve our financial and operating performance. We've diligently followed and executed against that plan as our results demonstrate. Pursuant to that plan we’ve refocused the company while simplifying our business structure. We’ve reduced risk disposal by either divesting or closing operations that did not fit within this strategy and have refocused management attention and capital resources on our core operations and strategic business initiatives. Going forward, we plan to continue to focus on increasing landfill returns, driving additional profitable ability at our collection operations creating an incremental value through resource solutions and reducing financial and operational risk while improving our balance sheet. We are confident that our focus on the core operations will continue to drive improved performance and increased free…
Ned Coletta
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
Thanks, John. Revenues in the fourth quarter 2015 were $140 million, up $6.5 million or 4.9% year-over-year. Solid waste revenues were up $7.5 million or were up 7.7% year over year in the fourth quarter, which increase mainly driven by higher disposal volumes, higher collection and disposal pricing, partially offset by lower processing pricing environments, lower fuel surcharges on lower diesel prices and lower energy pricing and volumes in the landfill to gas energy business. Revenues in the collection line of business were up $3.2 million-year over year in the fourth quarter, with prices up 5.3% and volumes up 0.6%. Our pricing programs in the commercial and residential lines of business continue to strengthen through the fourth quarter with pricing up 5.6% year over year marking our strongest pricing period in 10 years. We also advanced stronger pricing in the roll-off line of business with pricing up 4.8% in the fourth quarter as we tested elasticity in select markets with strong volume trends as we experienced an unseasonably warm fall and early winter in the northeast. Revenues in the disposal line of business were up $5.2 million year over year in the fourth quarter. Roughly 55% of this increase came from strong volumes at our landfills with landfills tons up 72,000 tons year over year in the fourth quarter with strength at most site and across most waste categories. A portion of this growth was driven by the unseasonably warm late fall and winter with C&D tons up roughly 30 tons year-to-year. Further as we discussed over the last several quarters, the remainder of the disposal revenue growth mostly came from higher revenues at the transfer station and in the transportation business driven by several new transportation and disposal contracts initiated over the last year. With C&D contracts we typically…
Ed Johnson
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
Thanks, Ned. Good morning, everyone. As you can see by the numbers we continue to make progress. The fourth quarter come in strong and we finished the year hitting all of our financial targets. As I take you through the key operating metrics you'll see that the steady improvement in the core business fundamentals support our results and also give us a pretty clear path to continued improvement. For the quarter cost of ops as a percentage of revenue improved 260 basis points year-over-year. That strong finish brought the full-year cost of ops improvement to 170 basis points and as I go through each line of business you will see that this was led by our collections operations which still have room for improvement and overcame some temporary operational headwinds at one of the landfills on a significant drop in recycling commodity prices. Collection operations accounted for 47% of our revenue for the quarter and cost of ops as percent of revenue improved 430 basis points over the fourth quarter last year. This was a sequential improvement from the third quarter, our strongest quarter seasonally of 50 basis points at a time when things are normally slowing down for the year. I hate to break the cardinal rule for analyst calls but I'm going to say something positive about the weather in a minute. I mentioned on prior calls that our fleet orders for the year had come in on time and we ended up -- had not come in on time, I'm sorry, and we ended up having to keep old trucks on the road through the summer, trucks that were supposed to been retired before the spring season. This caused us reduced efficiency and a spike in maintenance costs as we had to invest in the old truck…
Operator
Operator
[Operator Instructions]. Our first question comes from the line of Joe Box from KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open.
Joe Box
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
A question for you on the free cash flow guide. I'm just trying to understand what puts you at the low end of the range versus the high-end, I guess in light of the permit expansions you're talking about, should we think about the wide ranging incorporating some additional landfill investments? Just any color on that and just CapEx guide would be helpful too.
Ned Coletta
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
The CapEx guidance for the year is $46 million to $50 million and if you look at that range, some of it comes down to timing of landfill capital expenditures. As you laid out we have a couple of expansions where we are working on Ontario with new aerospace and we will be working on building some new aerospace that are [indiscernible] landfill as well this year. There's always a little bit of variability there through the year. To your point when you look at guidance for the year, our pricing programs are going very well. We have good visibility today where we advance pricing increases through late 2015 and into early 2016 and we feel like we have a pretty good visibility there. But we’re pushing market elasticity especially in the landfill and the transfer line of business this year. But we put out slightly muted volume projection there, we shed some volumes. We will know we are hitting the elasticity point that's our goal for the year. So we’re a little bit muted there if we work through the numbers but there's probably some upside if things go better than we had forecasted.
Joe Box
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
Actually that was my nest question, you know why isn't there more opportunity with respect to volume? So just to be clear it's not necessarily something you're seeing from an end market standpoint. You’re not necessarily seeing an increase in churn just yet or increased competitive dynamic? It's more along the lines of you being cautious and you’re pushing price hard and expecting that could result in less volume but you are not seeing it yet?
John Casella
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
I think that’s a very fair statement, Joe. We are not seeing any changes in terms of churn from a landfill standpoint. As Ned said we’re turning a bit out of the lower price so we are trying to move real value creation from a pricing standpoint, we are consistently doing that across the entire portfolio from a disposal standpoint but we really haven't seen any significant churn at this point.
Joe Box
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
Last one and then I will turn it over. Just curious on the Western markets. Clearly you've seen some capacity expansions there. I know it's early in the DSNY [ph] process but I'm curious if you're starting to see anybody in the market start to posture for any displaced tonnage at this point?
John Casella
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
No. I do not think that we are seeing any unique activity that would be attributable to the New York situation. So I don't think we've seen anything at this point in time. The tons are beginning to flow to upstate New York to both facilities but we're not seeing anything that is very significant from an impact in the marketplace as yet. We were pretty -- I think most importantly we are pretty comfortable with what we've laid out for plan in terms of the Western region landfills. I think we have a plan in place that we believe we can achieve in terms of the total tons to '18 that we've laid out in our plan.
Ed Johnson
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
And in Western New York and in New York State in general, construction [indiscernible] were really a laggard, we saw much more market activity there across several markets over the past few years and then in 2015 we start to see more of a recovery in New York State which is also helping by the capacity out there in Western New York.
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open.
Tyler Brown
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
Ned, can you help me out a little bit just bridging the mid-point EBITDA guidance through the '15 EBITDA. So big picture, just can you talk about some of the puts and takes? I mean it sounds like you've got a pretty strong tailwinds and collection, it sounds like G&A will be down slightly. The positive lapping on SRA but how should we think about disposal volumes and gas for recycling etcetera, basically I'm just looking at kind of some of the big puts and takes for next year.
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
Yes. Really the biggest puts are on pricing in the collection line of business, it's going to be a big positive mover for us in the year as you can see from the stats we put forward. Part of that we expect slightly to be muted through higher recycling tipping fees moved intercompany. Landfill price, we are expecting that to be a positive mover as well in the year of a couple million dollars, when we look at other moving pieces in the year, we've actually put a flat to slightly negative volume stat into our solid waste forecast for the year and as John said it's not that we’re seeing anything in the environment today, we're just being conservative as we continue to advance strong price increases into the market. As far as other negatives in the year, we expect energy at the landfill gas energy facility to be down another 5% or 10% this year which would will be continued headwind into the business and we expect some other just cost lines to be up as we increase facilities in few of the other categories across the business in the year.
Tyler Brown
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
And then just bigger picture, as we think about the three-year strategic plan and we've got the three buckets, so landfill, collection, resource solutions. But how should we think about the contributions from those buckets over the next three years? So maybe I'm wrong here or maybe I am missing it but is 2016 going to more year benefit by collection with 2017 and 2018 be more landfill driven? Or how is it going to work over the next couple of years?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
We’re driving faster and further on the collection strategy than when we put this plan together back last summer. Even from where we started back in June if you look at our last call months' basis [ph], close to $6.5 million of our EBITDA gains during that period come from the collection line of business. So we had buckets, landfill $10 million to $18 million over a three-year period, collection $11 million to $15 million and resource solutions $6 million to $7 million and as we've gone out of the gate with strategy, the biggest mover first mover was the collection line of business and as I said earlier into next year collection is going to be the biggest contributor again through pricing and moderating some of the costs for the efforts as making a vehicle maintenance and productivity. Landfills, it's going to be a big price push in 2016. We are positive in our forecast for the year on EBITDA but as I said earlier we are forecasting to potentially shed some volumes. We would be looking into 2017 and 2018 to start growing volumes more significantly as we see the markets tighten further.
Tyler Brown
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
And then just lastly on the senior notes that you bought, where are those notes trading today? Are you able to buy those under par?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
Yes. So we have made a couple of trades today and the most recent trades in January we bought below par in the 96 range. They are trading 95 to 96 the last time I looked. So it is very accretive for us, further accretive beyond just the interest savings to be buying back those bonds with the overall dislocation in the high-yield market.
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open.
Scott Levine
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
So following on the topic of the sub notes and the interest expense, I don't know if you have a breakdown of how much of the notes are outstanding versus your revolver. Maybe a little more detail on the total debt outstanding and maybe if I can trouble you for guidance on interest expense given that mix and given what your debt repayment plans are for 2016 to try and get the model right?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
Sure. So as of December 31, we had $370.3 million outstanding on the senior sub notes and as I said a minute ago, we paid down another $4.2 million into January. So we are currently around $366 million. The revolver on 12/31 was at $57.4 million and we had availability of $64.1 million on the revolver. So we have plenty of liquidity in the business today. And as you look out into next year, we expect interest expense on the income statement to be roughly $39.5 million, right around there. The trades we have conducted to-date to pay down the senior sub notes are the $18.9 million we paid down to-date saves us about $1 million a year in cash interest. So some real meaningful benefit for shareholders.
Scott Levine
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
And it sounds like your intention in terms of use of cash free cash flow continues to be paying down the sub notes for this year so can we expect the bulk of your free cash flow to be applied to debt repayment and/or are there any other things you guys are thinking about above and beyond tuck-ins that may come your way or you may not expect or anything else that would be a call on cash there.
John Casella
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
No. I think that is exactly right. I think our utilization as cash is going to be to pay down debt, Scott.
Scott Levine
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
A couple of other quick ones, I want to make sure I understood right. Did you say, John that you saw a 100 basis point margin improvement year over year in the customer solutions business? Or did I not hear that right, does that include organics or other areas?
John Casella
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
That was in customer solutions business. Correct. Yes.
Scott Levine
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
And I'm guessing you're still seeing, I know that the volumes were down and I think you indicated there but you are still seeing a positive margin trend with in that business in '16?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
Yes. The volumes are really down due to recycling commodity prices. It's just way it runs through the system so it's a little bit of a misnomer where we have a lot of flow through revenues in that business where customer will have us handle their recycling strings from an industrial standpoint and then as recycling commodity prices have dropped we are selling them for less. It's more of accounting system issue today where we don't do price volume mix in that line of business so it will be something we look to improve. So their sales pipeline still remains strong and they continue to drive to new customers and we're just seeing some -- it's really recycling headwind that's impacting that stat but we expect to improve operating and adjusted EBITDA further in 2016.
Scott Levine
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
Last one, so not to try to extract or inferred guidance for 2017 from your three-year financial targets, but you know, kind of assuming from the midpoint of your 2016 guidance to your three-year targets, you know informally is the expectation roughly some ratable improvement as you move towards those 2018 goals or is there anything else we should be thinking about preliminarily that might affect the trajectory as you guys execute towards those three-year targets?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Scott Levine from Imperial Capital. Your line is open
Yes. So we finished 2015 at 106.1 million of adjusted EBITDA at the midpoint of 2016 guidance, that's up $7 million year over year and if you look out to 2018, the plan we laid out, the midpoint that will be a $127 million of adjusted EBITDA. So up $21 million over the three years and we expect it to come ratably each year as Tyler asked earlier the mix of where it is coming from we believe will shift a little each year. This is a big collection year, we think disposal will drive a bit more into 2017.
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open.
Corey Greendale
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
I had just few quick follow-up and excuse my voice please. So Ned, did you say that we should expect cash interest to be down $1 million in 2016 or can you just clarify that?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
Yes cash interest in 2016 is expected to be about $35.5 million and in 2015 we’re at right around $35 million. So it's generally flat, I think it's mixing in -- I might get back to you on that. It might be mixing in some of the new revenue bonds that’s that to stay somewhat flat and we’re taking cash interest cost out. Our forward-looking model also had a LIBOR going up pretty significantly during in the year. Do you know how much?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
500 basis.
John Casella
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
We had in our forward model LIBOR going up a 100 basis points on the revolver. So those are probably the two countervailing trends where we’re taking cash interest cost out on the senior subs but we had a pretty steep forward curve on the floating rate debt and we're mixing in more industrial revenue bonds over the year.
Corey Greendale
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
Okay. I appreciate that and maybe we should follow up off-line. Has anything changed relative to your expectation of the long-term plan you laid out as far as cash interest savings in 2018?
John Casella
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
No.
Corey Greendale
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
Second question I had, just digging a little more on the dynamics underlying the collection price increases, is the concept that you’re kind of raising price to residential collections and commercial customers across the board by 5% or is the concept that some are flat -- a significant number are flat and there are some customers who are raising price by 15% or something like that because the returns have not been good.
John Casella
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
Well I wouldn’t go as far as saying any of them are flat. I think we're raising everyone's something but obviously this is a local market business and there are some markets where we have pushed price a little harder or had to push price harder than in other markets so it all averages out to the 5.3%. But I don't think there is anyone that is on a flat price.
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
No. You are just looking at profitability by customer and then appropriately making those decisions, pricing standpoint.
Corey Greendale
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
I was trying to get a sense of standard deviation if it was an asset range or in general everyone is getting 3% to 7% or something like that?
John Casella
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
I think it's everybody getting more the 3% to 5% to 7%.
Corey Greendale
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
Okay. And then since Scott asked you about 2017 I want to ask you about 2019, one of the questions I've been getting is about -- the question is more conceptual that you are making great progress on this plan and you've got this improvement plan in place but what's your headcount at the end of 2018, do you think you are more industry growth rates as far as EBITDA and free cash flow or are there still some more outsize kinds of things to go from there?
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
We laid out this multiyear plan and looked at the key strategies of what drives the business and I think from our vantage point there will be more strategic options open to us at that point in time. We will have leverage well within where we want to be and whether there are some acquisitions later that that could drive more growth, and integrate with assets, could be a question that could come up. So we haven't not really mapped out from 2018 on but frankly, Corey everything we are doing is driving to that point where we believe that getting the leverage out of business and focusing on blocking and tackling and optimizing our current assets drives the most shareholder value in this period. When you get past that we will still have excess capacity at our Western New York landfills that plan never to fill those landfills. We will still have 300,000 to 400000 tons to excess capacity and some ability to continue to grow there. And I can't quite forecast pricing or other savings that far out but down at those levels that leveraged level, that free cash flow production level we will have a lot of opportunity as the business grows in other manners as well.
Corey Greendale
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
Okay. And just one last quick one for me, since Ed, broke the cardinal rule on weather, I'm going to ask about the economy, mixed signals at a macro level in the northeast what are you seeing in terms of the economy?
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
I think we're seeing a pretty strong economy in the Eastern region but I think the economy is still struggling in the Western region.
John Casella
Analyst · Corey Greendale from First Analysis. Your line is open
And the other thing that might be worthwhile to mention too just from a seasonal standpoint you have to remember in '15 in January and February we had very, very significant impacts from a weather standpoint and I think it kind of average itself out with a mild November and December this year in 2015. So I think those two things were offsetting a bit too from a weather standpoint.
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
First one, how should we think about book and cash taxes in 2016 and then how to think about those ramping up going forward?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
The cash taxes will remain quite low in 2016. We have in our model around $1.5 million of cash taxes and cash taxes were roughly $300,000 in 2015. We still have a $80 million roughly NOL in the business to-date and we project the next five years not working through all of the NOLs. So there are nondeductible items both at a federal and state level that cause to still to be a small cash taxpayer. But we will have continued leveraged their over the next few years through our free cash flow where we just don’t expect to pay cash taxes at least out through 2019.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
How about on the book side? What should we look like trying to get through the model?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
Yes. On the book side it's going to be more of the same where we will expect book taxes to be pretty much around a $1 million or $1.2 million, we ended this year at $1.3 million, there is non-deductible items and what not that causes us to have a small book tax there even with the negative pretax which will be coming in dramatically further in 2016.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
Okay. And then on the free cash flow guidance, I just want to be clear that doesn’t include any divestiture proceeds in 2016?
John Casella
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
No. It does not. During the year we do see some small sales of assets or small sales of routes and that's kind of ongoing business but as far as a larger sale being in the guidance it's not there.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
Okay. And what assumptions do you’ve built in there if any on where working capital swings? I mean you had about a $5 million benefit in '15 from working capital. What's kind of embedded in the $20 million to $24 million for 2016?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
There is not much they are. It's pretty neutral year over year. Some of the benefit in '15 to '16, there is just big moving pieces as we change our year-end and each of those have generally resolved themselves and we will be into a more of a neutral position year over year.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
Okay. And then just real quick on the SRA fee that you guys have now rolled out more or less I think I heard it was fully rolled out in the first quarter? But you still have recycling revenues that are going to be down 2% to 7%. Is that just not offsetting the magnitude of the rollover impact of lower commodity prices or your forecast for 2016 including additional pressure on commodity pricing coming down?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
So our forecast for 2016 has commodity prices coming down further. But we have seen due to pretty week market in January we believe February will resolve a bit, but year-over-year January was down. And we will continue to push tipping fees in lower markets to third-party customers and intercompany, if they go to intercompany hauling divisions we will increase the SRA fee as necessary. So there is an offsetting factor.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
So the SRA fee's is not quite offsetting the full commodity pressure at this point?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
The SRA fee plus increased tipping fees to third-party customers exiting 2015, at an exit run rate was offsetting the full impact and we expected to do so into 2016. It did not fully offset in 2015 but at an exit run rate we are offsetting all of the negative impacts.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
So if that’s offsetting the commodity what's pushing it down 7% to 2% for the recycling?
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
I'm sorry. So this is where the money shows up. When we sell the commodities in the recycling business we book the revenue there, we expect to have lower commodity revenues there and then we book the revenue for the SRA fee through the hauling business and when we report price volumes stat we don't report the intercompany price stat. So the revenue is showing up through the hauling business and those stats are all presented third-party and not total revenue, if that makes sense.
Brian Butler
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
All right. Just so that I heard this right. So recycling business is down because of lower commodity prices but you're making that up in the hauling because you’re going to see the fee there.
Ned Coletta
Analyst · Brian Butler from Stifel. Your line is open
Yes.
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open.
Tyler Brown
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
I just have a quick follow up, Ed, just out of curiosity, how big is the fleet today and what is the average age?
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
The fleet today is about 740 trucks. We are still going through a purge as we brought in quite a few trucks over the past six months. We brought in all of 2015 trucks and most of 2016 trucks. So we have still not purged out our older trucks and so the average age is running around eight years.
Tyler Brown
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
Okay. And is this including frontline and spares or is it just frontline?
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
It's frontline and spares.
Tyler Brown
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
Okay. And so as -- the second year into a five year plan, I mean where do you expect that the average age to ultimately pan out?
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Tyler Brown from Raymond James. Your line is open
The target is to get the average age to 6.5 at the end of the five year plan.
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open.
Al Kaschalk
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
I have a little bit broader question first on the capacity comments that I think you said, I don't know if it was '19 or '20 but I want to focus on 2016 and 2017 but the availability of capacity -- across your landfill portfolio, how much is there and just trying to get a sense of the pricing dynamic that you may be able to be position for.
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
So we have roughly 600,000 tons of excess capacity in our landfill portfolio today with the majority of that been out in Western New York and Pennsylvania. But if you look back to the multiyear plan we put out we said we drive 200,000 tons to 400,000 tons of incremental volumes. So that's was what I was saying to Corey was even within the context of that plan we still have excess capacity to drive additional value.
Al Kaschalk
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
So is the 200,000 tons to 400,000 tons is that because of known closures forthcoming or is that additional economic activity that you expect to benefit from given the positioning of the landfills?
Ed Johnson
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
Well there are some known closures. There's a small landfill that’s within miles of one of our landfills in Western New York that will be closing in the next year and we believe we are in a great position to bring in some of those additional volumes and as everyone knows the dynamics are shifting in New York State and we believe we are in a good position to continue to get additional tons and as I said earlier on the call, we've seen slightly improved C&D trends in New York State finally and that’s driving a little better performance. So we see some sustained activity there that could help as well.
John Casella
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
As with last year, there will be different transfer stations out to bid, there will be bidding opportunities for different volumes or tonnage that will be coming in through municipal contracts or through transfer stations as well.
Al Kaschalk
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
Okay. Second, you have talked about in the past about strategically operating some of the landfills and collections meaning swaps and whatnot. You just commented about the shifting dynamics in New York. Are there opportunities as a result of the announced transaction that looks like it's well on track to close by June 1 for some opportunities to pick up some volume there or to participate in some type of swaps that can benefit you strategically?
John Casella
Analyst · Al Kaschalk from Wedbush. Your line is open
We don't see a significant opportunity there. I think that our perspective is keeping our head down and continuing to drive our plan to execute against that plan. I think certainly we will look at swaps and if there are opportunities to improve our performance and get more tons to the facilities, etcetera then we will certainly look at all of that but we don't anticipate anything significant coming out of the transaction.
Operator
Operator
[Operator Instructions]. And that is all the questioners that I have in the queue at this time. So I would like to turn the call back over to management for closing remarks.
John Casella
Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets. Your line is open
Thanks. Thanks, everyone for your attention this morning. We look forward to discussing our first quarter earnings with you in early May. Thanks everyone. Have a great day.
Operator
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you again for your participation in today's conference. This now concludes the program and you may now all disconnect your telephone lines at this time. Everyone have a great day.