Mark Casale
Analyst · Rick Shane with JP Morgan. Rick, please go ahead
Yes, that's a -- that's a really good question. It's been a topic recently. It's for a while internally. One, I think if they -- if they have a mortgage, they're required to have homeowners. So if somehow they're dropped, they'll get force placed. So we don't worry about them having the insurance should something happen. So I think we're pretty well covered there. And remember, and you know this, Rick, and I'm sure a lot of others do, we're not really on the hook until the home is repaired. So there's that kind of layer of protection we have. And that's why we've seen historically, a lot of the defaults in the Hurricane regions tend to curate at a pretty high rate. Again, past performance doesn't predict the future, but that's been pretty much the scenario we've had for past hurricanes. In terms of the longer term impact of homeowners insurance, yes, I think it's going to continue to be an issue in certain parts of the country. Just remember when some of the real coastal regions or even where the wildfires are, these are high cost areas, Rick. It's not a lot of mortgage insurance. So we don't really -- we're not that exposed. I think they're the ones that are most susceptible to these significant increases in homeowners. But even for normal folks, you'll see it go from like 600 a year to 1,200, it's significant. It's significant from a borrower perspective. If you kind of like raise above it kind of big picture from an MI perspective, it's like maybe a point in DTI. So it's -- like we think about it a lot, but I'm trying to put it in perspective for investors, that -- the assets and added -- it's an added cost. And I think it just goes in general, Rick, to kind of our theme that with affordability of going up and maybe staying up, the amount of disposable income that borrowers are going to have to use from -- or allocate from mortgages, I just think is going to increase. I mean, you live in California, it's always been that way in California. For 30-years, borrowers have allocated more of their disposable income to housing. Hasn't really been that -- hasn't been that way for the rest of the country. And I just think homeownership rates will continue to stay where they are, kind of in the mid to upper 60s. I think borrowers are going to allocate more of their disposable income. I don't think they're going to have a choice if they want to be homeowners. So hopefully, that gives you a little bit of big picture context.