Dave Dullum
Analyst · Jefferies.
Well, we continue, as Mickey asked correctly earlier, what did you pay for The Mountain? And what did we sell Acme for? And I'd say that good quality companies are definitely getting bigger multiples, certainly, when they're being sold. I think it's not unusual, on average, everything we're looking at might have a 7 multiple or an 8 multiple, we've seen some at a 10 multiple, as David Gladstone said, somewhat depending on the industry, so still pretty, I'd say, strong if you on the sell side. Therefore, obviously, on the buy side, it makes it tougher to buy things at 5x and 6x, but again, we can afford to be patient, careful how we do it, and that's where we are, so looking forward. I'm not hearing that it's necessarily going to get any easier, I do think one thing that we're starting to see a little bit, you might have a sense of this, is clearly the amount of leverage that is becoming available to the classic buyouts environment seems to be coming down a bit. That's, obviously, therefore, puts pressure either you got to put more equity in or, obviously, reduce the enterprise value and therefore the multiple. I think we may see a bit more of that, certainly in the $5 million to $7 million, $8 million EBITDA companies, where it's just harder to get the kind of cheaper leverage and therefore people getting a little more sensible on the multiple they're willing to pay.