Michael Sacks
Analyst · TD Cowen
I'll take it, Pam. It was the carry question, where is it going to come from and how good do we feel about it? And what's our -- how do we characterize it? And I think, Bill, where I would start on that is I think the most important piece, and I want to dig in a little is, how we mostly think about it is it's not an if it's a when. And so when matters, time value money matters, absolutely for sure, sooner is better. That said, that asset is appreciating very rapidly. And I encourage everybody to listen to my comments in the script with regard to that asset, look at the appreciation over the year, last year, quarter-over-quarter. That asset is appreciating rapidly. And what to me is very encouraging about that asset, when you have a carry asset on your balance sheet. One of the things you worry about is sort of old carry and is the old carry just kind of stale and sitting there and you're not going to really collect it. If you look at our collections, our old carry has come way, way, way, way down. We've collected most of it, so it's live. It has been a when not an if question. And we have every confidence that, that carry at [ $479 ] firm share now is a when, not an if, and that, that number is going to go up, which we touched on. And there is a ton of carry at work behind doesn't really appear anywhere, right, because it's just carry that's not yet in the money to be counted and carry at NAV, but it's working. We're deploying the capital, and we're creating the investment returns to turn that into carried NAV and there's a ton of that, that we've generated in the last 6 years or so. And so we're hopeful that the same experience you've seen with our carry asset over the time period that we've been public, where we've tripled 3.5x, whatever it is, the size of the asset while collecting a lot of cash, not saying specific dollar amounts, but that, that same pattern is going to occur again on top of the [ $479. ] We think this is not -- like if you look at our carry asset today at [ $479 , ] it's a big chunk of our total enterprise value relative to peers. It's worth noticing that. And then you think about the dry powder, the carry that we have behind that, and it's a very significant asset for Grosvenor that we sort of feel and it will start cash flowing to a higher degree, just a question of when. And when we -- when it does, we think it will be significantly appreciated.