Operator
Operator
Goodafternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Lakes Entertainment Q3 ResultsConference Call. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Mr. Timothy Cope,President and CFO.
Golden Entertainment, Inc. (GDEN)
Q3 2007 Earnings Call· Wed, Nov 7, 2007
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Operator
Operator
Goodafternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Lakes Entertainment Q3 ResultsConference Call. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Mr. Timothy Cope,President and CFO.
Timothy Cope
Management
Thankyou for joining today's conference call as we discuss Lakes Entertainment’sthird quarter 2007 financial results. Here with me is Lyle Berman, Lakes’Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer. Aswe begin our prepared remarks I would like to remind everyone that this callmay contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securitieslaw, including statements concerning business strategies and their intendedresults and similar statements concerning anticipated future events andexpectations that are not historical facts. Theseforward-looking statements are made pursuant to the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.These statements do not guarantee future performance and therefore unduereliance should not be placed upon them. Lyle will begin our discussion todaywith an update on our casino projects. I'llthen discuss the third quarter financial results and recent business events.
Lyle Berman
Management
Thankyou Tim and good afternoon, everyone. Many investors have been asking about theSeptember SEC filing which relates to my sale of stock. Therefore, I willaddress the issue prior to reviewing our projects. I sold stock for personalreasons, as I needed to raise cash for personal reasons. Additionally,18 months ago when Lakes stock was $9 I had an option to purchase 500,000shares of stock at $5.33. When I exercised the option, I had to pay taxes onthe difference. Therefore the sale of the 300,000 shares of stock is acontinuation of this transaction. Please note that I still own approximately 3million shares and firmly believe in Lakes and its future. Movingto our projects, as I review each casino project please remember they are notin any order of significance or state of completion. Dates of construction andanticipated opening dates are subject to change. I'llbegin with the Four Winds Casino Resort in New Buffalo, Michigan, which openedon August 2nd. The casino includes approximately 3,000 slot machines and 110table games, as well as restaurants, a hotel, retail shopping space, andseveral other amenities. Theopening of the Four Winds Casino Resort in Michigan was a significant milestone for Lakes. We are nowfocused on the successful management of this property. Initial casino win wassomewhat disappointing. However,Four Winds results and our related management piece have continued to improveas a result of modifications, which were made in a number of areas to meetcustomer demand and to improve operating efficiencies. We continue to be verypleased with the guest count numbers since Four Winds opening and as a resultkey performance metrics continued to improve. Additionally,customer feedback and local media coverage of Four Winds is drawing comparisonsto amenities, game play, and service found in Las Vegas casinos. We are verypleased with these comparisons and feel this property is truly in a class byitself…
Timothy Cope
Management
Thankyou, Lyle. Revenue for the quarter totaled $7 million, compared to $5.9 millionfor the third quarter ended October 1, 2006. Losses from operations were $6.3 million for thecurrent year quarter compared to earnings from operations of $1 million for theprior year comparable period. Netlosses for the third quarter of 2007 were $5.2 million. Basic and dilutedlosses were $0.21 per share. This compares with net earnings of $3 million, andbasic and diluted earnings of $0.13 per share and $0.12 per share respectivelyin the third quarter of 2006. Revenuesfor the third quarter of 2007 include management fees from existing Cimarron Casinoin Oklahoma which is owned by the Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma and management feesfor approximately eight weeks of operations from the Four Winds Casino Resortin New Buffalo, Michigan, which is owned by the Pokagon Band of PotawatomiIndians and open to the public on August 2, 2007. Inaccordance with the management contract with the Pokagon Band, pre openingexpenses totaling approximately $15 million incurred during the constructionphase of the project are shared proportionally by Lakes during the first 12months of Four Winds operations. Toclarify, Lakes' proportionate share is 24%, the same percentage as ourmanagement fee, which amounts to approximately $4 million over the first 12months of operations and only the first 12 months. There's no impact on Lakes'fees in subsequent years. Thecombined management fees, which are net of Lakes' share of these pre openingexpenses, were $2.6 million for the third quarter of 2007. No management feeswere recognized during the third quarter of 2006. Iwould like to emphasize that management fees for the third quarter of 2007represent fees for eight weeks of management of the Four Winds Casino Resort andfees for three months of management of the Cimarron Casino. Iwould like to reiterate that we have received tremendous reviews for the newlyopened Four Winds project…
Operator
Operator
(OperatorInstructions) The first question is from James Kayler of the Banc of America.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Juston the obviously about the opening of Pokagon, the commentary was prettyspecific. It said in the release that initial casino win was somewhatdisappointing. Is there any way you could put some color around that, maybetalk about volumes versus the win? Were there any hold discrepancies, anythinglike that?
Lyle Berman
Management
Ithink there was a little bit of everything. Whenever you open a casino, youhave a number of things, the hold discrepancy usually is, especially on tablegames because of dealer inefficiencies are below expectation. You budgetobviously a number of people dropping off the radar chart, so you have expensesthat are higher than plan as well.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Okay.Was win more disappointing than volume? I guess I'm trying to get a sense forhow the volumes in the property work, because, obviously there were a lot ofreports about how strong, just people?
Lyle Berman
Management
Ithink in general the volume was, if you use coin in as a number for machines aswell as drop in the table games, the volume was very, very good. The holdpercentages were below expectation.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Thatis very helpful. Tim, are you willing to go through the management feecalculation or at least just theoretically?
Timothy Cope
Management
Ican't talk about it real specific but I think you're familiar with the formula.We get 24% of net revenue
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Okay.
Timothy Cope
Management
And,of course, the net revenue is defined in such a way that our fees come down bythat our proportion share of that pre-opening expense. So that comes out to beabout $1 million a quarter our share of pre-opening expenses over the first 12months.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Justto clarify, if we walk through the sort of net revenue calculation as defined,take your 24%, and then for the first effectively four quarters, subtract $1million from that?
Timothy Cope
Management
Foreach quarter.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Fortwo months in this past quarter.
Timothy Cope
Management
Itwas eight weeks, so roughly that.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Okay.And that's sort of not dependant on when the pre-opening occurred; it'scapitalized and then amortized straight line over one year?
Timothy Cope
Management
That'snot even an accounting thing. It was just strictly our arrangement that we madewith the Pokagon Band when we entered into the contract. Pre-opening expensesare expensed as incurred.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
OnPokagon's income statement.
Timothy Cope
Management
Sothey're already expensed, so it's not capitalized, it's just we're sharing inthat pre-opening of cost as part of our management agreement.
James Kayler - Banc of America
Analyst · the Banc of America
Verygood. Then just finally, also, on the commentary about the opening of Pokagon,you mentioned that you've started to make some changes to the property andimprove operating efficiencies etcetera. Could you just talk about what thingswent well, what things needed to be changed, some of the changes you've madesince opening - that would be helpful.
Lyle Berman
Management
Well,certainly what went well was what we just said before, the biggest singlething, I think, that we were extraordinarily pleased with is that we opened ontime and on budget a fabulous facility. We had incredible customer guest countsand those guest counts have continued. Andby the way we do this every month. It isn't just the first two months. We lookat our operating results virtually every single month of the year and say toourselves as a group, ‘okay, what can we do better?’ We listen to our marketingdepartment, our marketing department talks to our high roller customers inparticular. Theywill tell us whatever the complaint is, or the accolades that we get, themarketing department will give us back that feedback. So every month we'remaking changes. I would say in the first two, three, four months of a casinooperation, or maybe even in the first six months, you'll see the change is muchmore dramatic. Whenyou get past six months you're more into a fine-tuning. Just as an example youlook at slot machine performance, and you find two-quarter machines andone-quarter machine had $10,000 a day go through the machine, the other had$2,000 a day. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say let's get more of the $10,000sand let's get less of the $2,000s. Soyour slot mix in particular is incredibly important. And again, when you open acasino a great deal of it is guesswork. You certainly listen to the salesmantelling you, if you're a casino like Boyd or Stations, they have a great dealof history, maybe even in the marketplace to put their assortment up. Obviouslythis is the first casino that Lakes has opened of this size and magnitude,certainly in a market that we spent a lot of time in and we certainly saw whatother people were operating. So I think that if you understood our slot mixtoday, three months later, three-and-a-half months, and compared it to openingday it's, quite frankly, dramatically different. Andthose differences make a great deal of hold and win coin in, as well as thehold of the machines. So I think we're looking at everything. We're looking atprices. When we opened, our buffet prices we felt were a little under market.We've raised some food prices along the way. So we're continually fine tuningand quite frankly, we're very pleased that our traffic has stayed equal to whatit was before and we've got an increased gaming win as well as revenue.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Justin Gerbereux of T. Rowe Price.
Justin Gerbereux - T. Rowe Price
Analyst · T. Rowe Price
Iwas wondering if you could give me a little bit of an update on Shingle Springsin terms of where you might stand with getting a new compact with the state andalso just in terms of your hiring, if you have signed up a new GM in thatmarket yet.
Lyle Berman
Management
Speakingof the GM, we're actively interviewing candidates at this point in time for aGM. No decision has yet been made there. With regards to the compactnegotiations, that's obviously between the state and the Tribe. We certainlyare supportive of their efforts to get a new compact and think this triballeadership is actively working with the governor to get that done.
Justin Gerbereux - T. Rowe Price
Analyst · T. Rowe Price
Isthere still an expectation that you or the Tribe will be able to get full ClassIII compact done sometime before opening?
Lyle Berman
Management
That'sstill our expectations. I can't guarantee it, but that's certainly what we'reshooting to do.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Todd Eilers of Roth Capital Partners.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
First,for the third quarter, can you give an exact management fee number for thePokagon? I think in the press release you gave $2.6 million for the combinedmanagement fees. Can you give the exact number for the quarter?
Timothy Cope
Management
We'renot giving the exact number at this point. I'll preface that by saying resultsfrom Native American casinos as I think you are aware of are a very safelyguarded secret.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Sure.
Timothy Cope
Management
Asyou know, it's pretty hard to get any results from any Indian casino around thecountry. Because of that, we're certainly not giving out our specificinformation relating to Four Winds, just out of respect for the Tribe'sprivacy.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Okay.How about just going forward, would you ever look to give any sort of metricswith regards to the casino in terms of slot win, table win, revenue, EBITDAmargins, hotel occupancy, anything like that?
Timothy Cope
Management
It'skind of almost the same answer. Again, I've talked with tribal leadersregarding this. If they choose do that through their quarterly call with theirbond investors that might happen, but at this point in time, we're just notunder guidelines where we can probably release that individual specificinformation.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Howabout with respect to your Oklahoma management fees? Was there anything in the quarter that wasmaterially different from the prior quarters? It was running at about $400,000a quarter. Is anything changed there?
Timothy Cope
Management
Ithink that's a good way to interpolate the results. The Cimarron Casino doeswell and pretty much continues to do well as is. So we're happy about thoseresults as well.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Thatwould imply you did about, a little over $2 million in net management feesafter pre-opening expenses, roughly?
Timothy Cope
Management
Thatwas the eight weeks, as Lyle mentioned, with the start-up issues as well.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Thenwith regards to Shingle Springs, do you have a similar agreement with them withregards to sharing pre-opening expenses? And if so, what's the estimate for pre-openingexpenses?
Timothy Cope
Management
Wedo not have that same arrangement at Shingle Springs.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Okay.And then, with respect to the balance sheet, Tim, can you break down the notesreceivables by project, or at least what Shingle Springs and Jamul were for thequarter - the market value?
Timothy Cope
Management
Thelong-term notes?
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Yes.
Timothy Cope
Management
Jamulis approximately $24 million. Shingle Springs is approximately $52 million. AndIowa's is approximately $3 million.
Todd Eilers - Roth Capital Partners
Analyst · Roth Capital Partners
Okay.And then, given that the balance sheet continues to improve here for you, canyou maybe highlight what your priorities are in terms of capital allocation? Isit still Vicksburg investment, equity investment to get that project movingforward or how about, what are you thinking in terms of share buybacks givenwhere the stocks at, can you just refresh us on your priorities there?
Lyle Berman
Management
Ifyou look at the cash on our balance sheet, remember, our balance sheet cash iscomprised of both our cash and our share of World Poker Tour's cash. Obviouslyit's nice cash at World Poker Tour, but we have no access to it. Thecash that we have on our balance sheet is all committed to being used for ourvarious Indian projects up until we start substantially cash flowing as a companyonce Shingle Springs opens in late 2008. So we have no additional discretionaryfunds to do much of anything with--I'll give you the exceptions--until we startcash flowing. Thatbeing said, we have no debt on our company whatsoever. We have the ShingleSprings note of approximately $52 million. And we certainly have the possibleability to monetize that, like we did the Pokagon $100 million note, bysyndicating that note, or possibility of borrowing against the cash flow ofthis company and that asset. Ifwe do that, we have a variety of possible sources. One would be our Vicksburg project, which needs approximately $50 million ofequity, certainly there is the alternative of is the better use of those fundsbuying back our stock assuming it stayed at these lower levels, and/or otherprojects that possibly we're looking at. So at this point it’s kind of an openbook as to can we monetize, and if we do, how we'll use it.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Justin Sebastiano of Nollenberger Capital.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Asfar as the slots at Four Winds, I know the video slot didn't do so well at theopening, and you replaced a lot of them actually with some of thereel-spinners. How have the reel-spinners performed since you put those in thevideo slots place?
Lyle Berman
Management
Whenyou say they didn't do so well, it's interesting. In the retail business I usedto be in, if something is either good or bad usually, but in a slot machine ithas a lot to do with how many you have. You can have 20 of a certain model onthe floor and they do horrible. You can reduce that 20 to four, and they're four of your best machines. So it'sa balancing act. Ibelieve when we opened it was fairly clear to us as we looked at the firstmonths' results that on a proportional basis our reel, meaning the three-reelor five-reel machines, were outperforming the video machines, and we have beenin the process of adjusting those. Wemade one adjustment where I think we actually found a company, a new casinojust like ours that actually had the opposite problem in a differentmarketplace. We traded machines, several hundred machines, we gave them severalhundred of video machines and they gave us back several hundred or so of thereel machines. Yes,the balancing is more proportionate and on a relative basis, we're doing betternow with all machines, because we made that change.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Okay.And as far as the poker room, do you plan on maybe downsizing that and addingmore slots with the freed up space that would occur?
Lyle Berman
Management
That'salso something under consideration. As we always said, a poker table, be it anautomatic table that we have, or a dealer table, typically can never competewith a very good slot operation. So it's a balancing act. And if you look atour poker room today, we have 15 poker machines there but I believe we havecapacity to put in like 20 or 22. Socertainly we're looking at as our machines' performance is becoming more whatwe expected it, we certainly are looking to the possibility of adding somemachines in that area and maybe fine tuning that area a little bit.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Okay.But that's nothing that would be within the next quarter or so?
Lyle Berman
Management
Idon't believe it would be within the next quarter.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Okay.And, Tim, you had mentioned that you lowered the discount rate. What are youusing now for the notes receivable from the Jamul Tribe? It was 15.75% I thinkpreviously?
Timothy Cope
Management
Yes,actually increased it.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Increasedit, I'm sorry, right.
Timothy Cope
Management
Ithink it's more in the 17% range now. You understand we get this from athird-party valuation firm.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Andhow confident are you in your estimate to break ground on Vicksburg in late '08 or early '09?
Lyle Berman
Management
Well,we're reasonably confident that we can acquire the $50 million to break ground.The question is a) can we get the money, of course, and then, of course, b) atthe time we can get the money we certainly have to look at the alternatives tousing that money; but right now, at this point we're still planning to goforward with the Vicksburg project.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Thatis still $225 million?
Lyle Berman
Management
Yes.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · Nollenberger Capital
Tim,I'm sorry if you said this before. There was a question posed about the Oklahoma consulting and development fees. I mean, it'sbeen around $400,000, but the first quarter it was $450,000, the second quarterit was $386,000; is $400,000 a good number as a run rate – $400,000-$450,000?
Timothy Cope
Management
Ithink that's certainly in the ballpark.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Rushi Barrack of KBC Financial.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Gentlemen,on Pokagon you said that it's finished on budget, do you have a final cost forthe facility at this point?
Timothy Cope
Management
We'reworking on completing the construction contracts now. I think, as you'reprobably familiar under the bond indenture we have six months after opening tofinalize the contracts, close out the process. So we're in the middle of doingthat now.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Withrespect to the outstanding issue of a potential bond recall, can youcharacterize the magnitude of how much we'd be looking at having called in $5million, $20 million?
Timothy Cope
Management
Again,that's what we're going through right now, just to determine that number.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
There'sno way we could put some sort of outlying cuff on that or?
Timothy Cope
Management
Notat this point.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
IfI'm listening to you carefully, and I'm not always good with math, it soundslike based on the management fees you disclosed that extrapolating, it lookslike the property was operating at about $100 million EBITDA level. I'm justwondering if that's more or less in the ballpark as to what it was doing?
Timothy Cope
Management
Dave,we really can't comment on that, as we mentioned earlier.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Theremight be another way to hit on that. In the 10-K you provided expectations, andI'm wondering if performance today is more consistent with your expectations?
Timothy Cope
Management
Ithink on our second quarter Q we had put in a win per unit estimate. I'd saywe're more in line today with that estimate.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
That'sreasonable. Okay. And could you talk about, with the initial performance, thereis different elements, one of them is market growth, one of them is thetenacity of your competitors and how aggressively they're marking, and then, ofcourse, there's your initial marketing effort in reaching out to the market,and could you talk about how those materialized and how they are now? Isthe market growing to your expectations? I think we're looking at probably a 13%to 15% rate. Could you comment on that?
Lyle Berman
Management
Well,overall, let me just talk about the marketing. First off, we've beenextraordinarily pleased with our sign-ups of what we call the Players Club,because that's the most important part of our marketing. Wedo a lot of general marketing to bring people in for the first time, but oncethey sign up on their card we know a lot more about them, we know their habits,their play, and we've been very, very aggressive in marketing back to thosepeople with all different kinds of promotions and they've been extraordinarilysuccessful. We'vebeen very successful at sending people incentives to come back. One of them,the promotion of course is free play. We had one promotion where people felt,based on their theoretical loss, or their actual loss on a daily basis, on aper trip basis we would send them a coupon for maybe up to 20-25% of theirtheoretical daily loss. Afree gift, ‘come in on Tuesday, use this coupon and it’s your money.’ And we'vehad high returns on those promotions, as well as win per day increases. We'vealso done some car giveaways; we've done some coffee making giveaways. We'vedone a lot of what we call direct marketing and we're continuing to do more ofthat. Weare also building our database and one of the keys to this property is thehigh-end play. We believe we have the best facility in the area, and the higherend play typically, not always, but have a tendency gravitate to betterproperty, where there's better food and better amenities. Andas we grow, just based on time, virtually every day we get high rollers comingin. We introduce ourselves to them; we get them to recruit their friends tocome in. So, it's a building process, but a very important one and we see ourhigh-end growth, our play in our high-end customers growing on a regular basis. Wehave hired a number of casino hosts from other casinos. They technically can'tjust take their black book and call everybody. That customer has to come in ontheir own the first time, and then we can call back once they've beenintroduced to them. So, it's a little bit slower process but it's definitely abuilding process.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Canyou characterize the size of your database now?
Lyle Berman
Management
Notat liberty to give that out, but it exceeds our expectations by almost double.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Onour last trip out to visit the property we saw Harrah's giving away a Bentley,Resorts giving away free gas for a year and Majestic offering five times cashback, almost suicidal. What are these guys doing today?
Lyle Berman
Management
Ican't tell you. I'm not familiar with what the other people are doing, per se.We look at our database, of course, and a high percentage of our customers comefrom the Western Michigan and Northern Indianamarket, which in fact, we're closer to than some of those people. OurChicago market is not as big as we would like, and we'recompeting that so I think a lot of their promotion is to keep what they have.And as you said, it gets very expensive, especially when they're in the highertax rate as opposed to us. And any kind of a marketing war that we're going toget into with any of our competitors I think we're going to win by just the economicsof our tax rate versus theirs.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Obviously,the room rates, your room metrics have been extraordinary. Do you have plans toaddress building a hotel addition any time soon?
Lyle Berman
Management
Yes.We are in discussions with the Tribe now with some land planners to see what'sthe most effective use of what we want to put up, but clearly the big part ofthe growth of this casino will come with an addition of 600 to 800 rooms and theassociated amenities that you expect to find. It's our vision, as well as theTribe’s, that this truly will become a full-service destination resort in theupper Midwest and obviously you can't do that without a largeroom base.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Soundslike you would wait six months to a year though before moving forward on that tosee what the level of business is?
Lyle Berman
Management
Ittakes six to eight months to do the planning and the architectural drawings so,I think it would be fair to say that you wouldn't see construction startprobably much before a year, but there's an awful lot of planning that goesinto that before that time.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Whatcan you say about your staffing levels now versus where you want to be?
Lyle Berman
Management
I'dsay we're real close to on plan right now and on budget. We had a largeturnover of workforce. It's scary when you think about just the first day howmany people don't show up even the second day for their job. But that's goodnews, because every month that goes by we have a higher trained workforcethat's used to our way of doing business, and of course, we have a very highenergetic, high demanding jobs because of the number of people that come in. Andtherefore some people can't handle that and don't make it. Many people thriveon it. Certainly, our hosts and hostesses that serve drinks, they love the factthat people are coming in. The more drinks they can serve the more tips they'regoing to get. So, some people thrive on that high energy, high consumer demandand some people don't and they go by the wayside.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Turningto Shingle, I know that the Tribe’s negotiations are the Tribe’s negotiations,but there's definitely a tone to the environment out there and some oppositionto changes and new compacts. Can you talk a little bit about the environmentthat they're dealing with right now?
Lyle Berman
Management
Thegood news was of course the Governor signed and the legislature ratified Ithink it's called the Golden Five compacts. What's interesting is that provideda rather substantial increase in gaming, whereas when our Tribe is looking, theShingle Springs Tribe they're trying to legitimately just get a compact forwhat they're entitled to. Thatbeing said, the legislature did approve it. However, the antis are trying toput on the ballot the denial of the Tribes to have expansion. What I'm told isthey're collecting signatures. They'll probably get the right number ofsignatures. That's not so difficult to do. And then we'll see what happens inthe election, but right now I know the polls that I've read or the ragmagazines that I read indicate that the population is in favor of the newcompacts.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Tothe extent that people voted against it it's not clear to me what happens atthat point. Does it get remanded back to the legislature?
Lyle Berman
Management
Idon't know the answer to that myself.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Whatcan we expect out of this Sharper Image lawsuit? I believe there's a datecoming up November 29th, is that correct? When are we going to get moreinformation?
Lyle Berman
Management
Right,but the Sharper lawsuit is not against Lakes, it's against the Tribe, but we'reheld harmless by the Tribe in that lawsuit. So it really doesn't affect us andwon't affect the casino operations. Tim, can you add something?
Timothy Cope
Management
Ithink that's a fair statement. There's no new news on that. Again, it'sproprietary to the Tribe and we don't anticipate that affecting the opening ofthe casino.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Okay.Now, the recent announcement of the termination of Rob Wyre, really, therewasn't any color around that. Could you tell us anything more about whathappened there?
Lyle Berman
Management
Wedon't comment on personnel decisions in the public domain. I think it's fair tosay that there was no specific event, there wasn't like all of a sudden therewas a major issue that caused his termination or some kind of a smoking gun, aswe say, but that being said, we're not going to comment on it.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Andanything happening with your partners--Kean and Argovitz--in terms of theirgetting licensed?
Lyle Berman
Management
They'restill both in the queue. As far as we know with NIGC. They have applied forlicensing. Obviously NIGC doesn’t confer with us. They're both anxious to getlicensed and we have no idea if they will or they won't.
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Asyou go forward in choosing the direction of the company, I was a little shockedto see something like that come up in a periodical.
Lyle Berman
Management
Letme just say that certainly we didn't seek the article. The writer for thebusiness journal at the Star Tribune contacted us and said he was writing anarticle about us and, therefore, would we be willing to talk to him, andcertainly I always believe that regardless of the writer's point of view, thearticle will come out better if we talk to them than we don't. So,we certainly have an open policy that we're always going to talk to anybody inthe media who wants to write about us or speak about us. That being said, Iguess the article was considered fairly neutral to a little negative about ourcompany, although I can tell you I couldn't find anything that he didn't speakthe truth on. Ihave publicly stated for the last several years, and I'll say it on this phonecall, that Lakes Gaming, when we become a cash flow machine in the 2009 periodand out, certainly do not expect to reinvest our funds in Indian gaming. Indiangaming is certainly our major core business. We're very good at it, and we willbe in it for a long time. After all, Shingle Springs doesn't open for a yearand then we have a seven year contract, so that's eight years. Jamul will keepus in there for another year after that, so even without renewals we will be amajor force in Indian gaming working with our Tribes and managing those casinosfor the next ten years. But,that being said, as we accumulate the cash from these operations, as you know,the majority of these operations took us seven or eight years from the time wesigned with the Tribe, and we invested well over $150 million. Most of theIndian opportunities out there today are of a similar or worse nature. Basicallyevery Tribe that has a decent site and legal rights to…
Rushi Barrack - KBC Financial
Analyst · KBC Financial
Thanksso much for those detailed answers. We're all for getting the company's storyout too.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. Your next question is from Clint Morrison with Feltl and Company.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Ibelieve you've got a third-party that got their fingers in your Pokagonmanagement fee pie. Was any of that in that $2.6 million or how was itaccounted for? Could you kind of review through how that works?
Timothy Cope
Management
That2.6 isn't affected by that.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.
Timothy Cope
Management
It'scalled amortization of intangible assets.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
So,that was in this quarter?
Timothy Cope
Management
Partof it, the eight weeks portion was in this quarter.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Andkind of what was the net of that when you add it up; what percentage of yourmanagement fee ends up going into that?
Timothy Cope
Management
It'snot based on a percentage. It's an agreed-on amount.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.
Timothy Cope
Management
There'stwo pieces of it. One was a prior manager that Pokagon had and that basicallyis about a $3 million fee or expense. It will come out as an expense to us,over the next two years. It's about $3 million, but just the way the accountingworks that will actually get amortized over the life of our contract. So, thatwill get spread over five years that $3 million. Andthen on the other side, with the BPTC or CRC companies’ agreement, again,that's a flat fixed amount. That's about $11 million, which will also beexpensed over the five years of our contract, just ratably over the five years.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.And obviously these numbers, and you can't quite get to it, but they imply somesort of run rate for the first eight weeks of your management fee and clearlyyou're ramping up and doing better now and I think you are continuing to makeprogress. Can you give us some sort of sense as to how far up the curb you go? Inother words, if this implies x, potentially, do you think you'll level out at 5%or 10% better than sort of what your initial run rate was, or do we have 20% or30% upside? Give us some sort of sense of that.
Timothy Cope
Management
No.I don't know if I can really give that you guidance because we probably don'tknow ourselves at this point. Eight weeks of a new operation in the new marketthere, frankly, until we do the first 12 months we're probably not going toknow a normalized run rate ourselves.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.And then finally, with regard to Shingle Springs, I assume that your current discountrate and probabilities and all that are based on a non-compact kind of asituation?
Timothy Cope
Management
That'scorrect.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.Any sense of if the compact goes through, how that changes the equation?
Timothy Cope
Management
Well,the metrics, basically remember our probability of opening.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.But it's also based on sort of win rates and that kind of stuff, too, right?
Timothy Cope
Management
Thatjust supports the fact that the valuation is there to cover our notesreceivable, which clearly is not an issue.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.
Timothy Cope
Management
So,we're very comfortable with being on time on budget. And that's really whatdrives that valuation.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Okay.So, the compact wouldn't really change it too much. And then the final questionis has anything changed in the world or any reason to think that if you did goout to try to monetize that Shingle Springs note at some point in the futurethat the result would be dramatically different from Pokagon?
Lyle Berman
Management
Well,as you know, the high-yield market has changed a great deal since then.
Clint Morrison - Feltl and Company
Analyst · Feltl and Company
Yes.That's sort of what my question is how might things have changed? Do you gotany sense of that?
Lyle Berman
Management
Whatwas interesting is that with the Pokagon note, we received, I believe it wasvery close to 9% and we monetized it at 9%. So, it was a neutral transactionfor us, actually very positive because on our $100 million loan, we were in the11% range. Today,it might be that we probably couldn't monetize Shingle Springs note at the samerate that we're collecting. And, of course, the high-yield market is upsidedown or has been for a while, but that all corrects itself, too, so we'll belooking at that possibility after the first of the year.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Chris Krueger of Northland Securities.
Chris Krueger - Northland Securities
Analyst · Northland Securities
Imissed a little bit of the call, but on the time frame for a couple of yourfuture projects, I heard you mention on the Jamul that the site is cleared,there's some prep work beginning and that you're evaluating the plan right now.I know last quarter I think you indicated you felt the construction would beginin the first quarter of '08 and open 12 months later. Is that more maybe likethe first half of '08 now or how would we look at that?
Timothy Cope
Management
Actually,the last quarter I think we said the same thing we're saying this quarter.We're continuing to work with the Tribe to evaluate when we can startconstruction on the casino. Casinoconstruction there will be about a 16-month-18-month build because of thenature of the site itself. So, I think the issue right now is when can weactually start the construction. And as you mentioned, we have started drillingon the roadwork there, which is the first piece of the project to get the roadcompleted. Sowe can start bringing in the construction equipment to do the building. Sowe're progressing on the roadwork right now, and then I think it's going to beagain subject to discussions with the Tribe and after the first of the yearwhen we feel we can start the casino construction.
Chris Krueger - Northland Securities
Analyst · Northland Securities
Thefires that happened out there, is there any impact from that?
Timothy Cope
Management
Weand the Tribe I would say were quite fortunate in that regard. All thebuildings had already been removed from the reservation, so although there wassome fire that came very close and on the site there's actually a church, andthat church was protected from the fire so there really was no physical damageoccurred.
Chris Krueger - Northland Securities
Analyst · Northland Securities
Samekind of question on the Ioway Casino. Is your stance on the time frame the sameas it was last quarter?
Timothy Cope
Management
Ithink we did give some guidelines here about the Ioway project, and as we kindof repeatedly say, each quarter we say, yes, it's going to be this time frame,then we move it out three more months, unfortunately in this project. Becauseright now we're dealing with getting back with the federal government in termsof BIA review and approval of their land lease situation, which is essentiallyout of our control.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Roy Berry, who is a private investor.
Roy Berry
Analyst
Inoticed your decades-long fight with the Louisiana Tax Authority is up to about$0.60 to $0.65 a share. Have you got a tax court date on that yet where you canget it settled down?
Timothy Cope
Management
Wedo not have a court date. We've just gone through a number of depositions. Weare now taking depositions from them, and more to come, but there's no courtdate arranged at this point.
Roy Berry
Analyst
Doyou expect the settle at a lesser amount? Of course you do.
Timothy Cope
Management
Wealways like to settle for a lesser amount but yet to be determined.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. The next question is from Walter Davis of Walter Davis.
Walter Davis - Walter Davis
Analyst · Walter Davis
Whatis causing the elongated delay on your casino in Vicksburg? I thought it was supposed to be breaking groundin the first quarter of '08.
Lyle Berman
Management
What'sdelayed Vicksburg is financials. The project has been budgetedabout $225 million to $230 million. We've been told that--and this was beforethe bond market was where it's at today--we would need about $50 million ofequity or something that looks like equity. AsI said, we have three ways to get that equity. One way is to monetize theShingle Springs notes which we didn't think would be appropriate at this stageuntil after the first of the year due to the high yield market. Two would be toborrow against that. Three would be to wait until we had cash flow. So what'sholding that project up is the viable financing of it.
Walter Davis - Walter Davis
Analyst · Walter Davis
What'sthe chances of your making a stock swap and picking up the additional 39% onWorld Poker Tour?
Lyle Berman
Management
Well,certainly World Poker Tour's stock is as disappointing as ours is and wecontinually talk about different possibilities with World Poker Tour, but atthe present time, I guess you could anticipate the status quo being about whatit is. We do continue to look at that as a possibility.
Operator
Operator
(OperatorInstructions) The next question is from Justin Sebastiano of NollenbergerCapital.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Justa quick follow-up. Tim, could you just run through how you're getting paid outon Jamul? From what I have, I see you have a $15 million up-front flat fee fromdevelopment services, $15 million payable evenly over five years forconstruction services, and then $50 million payable evenly over 10 years forfinancing services, is this correct?
Timothy Cope
Management
Currentlythe agreement is all fees that we earn are earned prior to the project openingbased on, as you mentioned, either oversight of construction, oversight of thedevelopment, or for providing the financing. All those fees are then spread outover the life of a 10-year contract.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Okay.So the development service is not a $15 million up-front flat fee?
Timothy Cope
Management
No,and there's nothing paid up-front. Everything is earned up-front.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Understood.So they're all paid out evenly over 10 years?
Timothy Cope
Management
That'sthe current plan.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Sounder the current plan then, you're going to get paid out on the $80 million, Iguess, regardless of what the casino does. Is that correct then?
Timothy Cope
Management
Well,no, only if it's successful. They can't pay us if they don't have the money,right?
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Well,what's considered successful? Do they have to hit a certain threshold, and thenpay you out when they hit?
Timothy Cope
Management
There'sno thresholds with this particular arrangement. Just cash flow.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Okay.They so let's say you are due $8 million in year one. If they net $8 millionthen you get it all, and the Tribe gets zero?
Lyle Berman
Management
Intheory that would be correct; in practicality, probably not.
Justin Sebastiano - NollenbergerCapital
Analyst · NollenbergerCapital
Okay.I just wanted to make sure that there is no threshold and that you will getpaid out.
Lyle Berman
Management
Nothreshold whatsoever.
Operator
Operator
Thankyou. There are no further questions registered at this time.
Lyle Berman
Management
Ijust want to thank you all for listening, and we'll look forward to talking toyou in three months from now. Thank you very much. Bye.