Earnings Labs

CGI Inc. (GIB)

Q3 2019 Earnings Call· Wed, Jul 31, 2019

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning, all participants. Your meeting is ready to begin. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the CGI Third Quarter Fiscal 2019 Conference Call. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Mr. Lorne Gorber, Executive Vice President, Investor and Public Relations. Please go ahead, Mr. Gorber.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thank you, Eric, and good morning. With me to discuss CGI's third quarter fiscal 2019 results are George Schindler, our President and CEO; and François Boulanger, Executive Vice President and CFO. This call is being broadcast on cgi.com and recorded live from Montreal at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time on July 31, 2019. Supplemental slides as well as the press release we issued earlier this morning are available for download along with our Q3 MD&A, financial statements, and accompanying notes, all of which have been filed with both SEDAR and EDGAR. Please note that some statements made on the call may be forward-looking. Actual events or results may differ materially from those expressed or implied and CGI disclaims any intent or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise, except as required by applicable laws. The complete Safe Harbor statement is available in both our MD&A and press release, as well as on cgi.com. We encourage our investors to read it in its entirety and to refer to the Risks and Uncertainties section of our MD&A for a description of the risks that could affect the company. We are reporting our financial results in accordance with the International Financial Reporting Standards, or IFRS. We will also discuss non-GAAP performance measures which should be viewed as supplemental. The MD&A contains definitions of each one used in our reporting. All of the dollar figures expressed on this call are Canadian unless otherwise noted. One final reminder. With the offer to acquire SCYSIS still outstanding, and per the Irish takeover rules, we cannot discuss any points or respond to any questions outside of the information that has been disclosed publicly. As such, our comments will be limited and any questions will refer back…

George Schindler

Management

Thank you, Francois, and good morning. I am pleased with our team's results in Q3, further strengthening CGI's position as a global end-to-end IT and business consulting services partner. I highlighted some early findings last quarter from our latest in-person client executive interviews. As we dig deeper into this unique and rich dataset, a meaningful insight has emerged that reinforces our strategic direction. Once again, this year, becoming digital to meet customer and citizen expectations is a key business priority for our clients. At the same time, IT modernization gained importance this year, rejoining the list of top priorities. This reemphasis on IT modernization is influenced by the slower than anticipated delivery of tangible results from clients' early stage digital initiatives. Even as clients continue to increase overall IT spending, they've started rebalancing their technology investments between new digital initiatives and fundamental modernization, with a sharper focus on generating business outcomes. Taking a more holistic enterprise view, clients will be better equipped to fully realize return on these technology investments. This shift is already occurring across industries and driving an increase in CGI's pipeline, in particular, for our unique combination of managed IT services and business consulting. Clients are increasingly receptive to this offering as it delivers business agility with innovation and immediate financial benefits. For CGI, this client decision-making shift reinforces our end-to-end services strategy, a strategy that leverages the strength of our proximity-based client relationships, world class delivery capabilities and the operational excellence for which CGI is recognized. With this strategic positioning as a backdrop, I will now turn to the operational highlights for the quarter. Revenue increased in all operating segments when accounting for a one-time contract adjustment in UK and Australia segment. Furthermore, we grew across all of our targeted industry sectors, led by global demand…

Lorne Gorber

Management

Just a reminder that a replay of the call is available either via our website or by dialing 1-800-408-3053 and using the passcode 7572208 until August 31. There will also be a podcast of the call available for download within a few hours. And, as usual, follow-up questions can be directed to me at 514-841-3355. Eric, if we could poll for questions, please.

Operator

Operator

Thank you very much, Mr. Gorber. We will now take questions from the telephone lines. [Operator Instructions] And the first question is from Richard Tse from National Bank Financial. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Richard Tse

Analyst

Yes, thank you. George, not that we’re at this point yet, but a lot of prognosticators are talking about if we enter – it’s an economic slowdown. If we were to do so, given the shift towards adoption of digital and everything you’re doing there, do you think the revenue stream is quite resilient? And I ask that question because more of your revenue today is SI&C versus outsourcing a number of years ago.

George Schindler

Management

Yes. Thanks for the question, Richard. Yes, I definitely agree that the revenue stream should be far more resilient. It’s really for a couple of different factors. First, the one important aspect is IT is far less of a discretionary spend and more of an obligatory spend given it’s important in really every business across industry. So, that’s an important change from the last time we had a downturn. But as you also pointed out, we do very well in a downturn. In fact, why I highlighted this shift that we see some of our clients now taking to get more of the business benefits, that plays really well to our end-to-end services. As I’ve always said, SI&C is the – if you think the business consulting is the tip of the spear, the SI&C is kind of – maybe the front of the spear. But the full backend of the spear is really providing those full IT managed services, which is why I highlight the increase in our pipeline – not just savings for our clients but allows them to continue to invest in IT. And every client I speak to is making the point that they are going to continue investing in IT. And our voice to the client shows that.

Richard Tse

Analyst

Okay. That’s helpful. And you talked a little bit on the call about the infrastructure business in Canada in terms of rightsizing that business. Do you need to do any of that rightsizing in other regions? And on the infrastructure side, I’m curious to see – are you at the point now where, on a global basis, the base of that revenue is sustainable going forward?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. So, on the infrastructure side maybe – and with your last question – yes, we believe that the infrastructure business is in fact sustainable. We’re at that right level. It continues to be a central aspect, particularly for our own intellectual property but also important for how we deliver the end-to-end services. So, I think it’s at a sustainable level. However, we continue to have ways of infrastructure automation to deliver those services with higher quality, more efficiently, and more cost effectively. That’s ongoing throughout the infrastructure operations around the globe. The reason I had to point it out here in Canada, we’re doing some of that as we speak around the globe. But it’s a bigger base of business in Canada, so it has a bigger impact. So, that’s the reason I pointed that out. But it’s ongoing. And again, it’s part of the natural course of doing business.

Richard Tse

Analyst

Great. And just a last one for me on the landscape. You’ve made a number of, I don’t know, niche – whatever you call it – acquisitions, smaller than you have done in the past. From a competitive positioning standpoint, has that sort of made an inroad relative to some of your big competitors in the marketplace?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. So, we’re very disciplined. We call them – we refer to them as metro market-based mergers. And the reason for that is, they’re bringing us local relationships that then allow us to sell through the full range of services. And that’s why they’re important. Yes, they come with very talented individuals. They come with expertise – domain expertise and technology expertise. But they also bring with them deep relationships. And that’s really our criteria. They bring with us – bring with them deep relationships that allow us then to provide the full range of services. So, yes, it makes us far more competitive in each of the regions that we buy them. And we’re seeing accelerated growth in those regions – in every one of those regions around the world – when we do one of those mergers.

Richard Tse

Analyst

That’s great. Thank you for taking my questions.

George Schindler

Management

Thanks, Richard.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thanks, Richard.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Thanos Moschopoulos from BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thanos Moschopoulos

Analyst

Hi. Good morning.

George Schindler

Management

Hi, Thanos.

Thanos Moschopoulos

Analyst

George, is the constrained labor environment impeding your growth in any of the geographies, or is that something you’re being able to manage through successfully?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, you mean, the economic growth?

Thanos Moschopoulos

Analyst

No, no. The constrained labor environment. The…

George Schindler

Management

Oh, the constrained labor environment. No, no, no. The constrained labor environment is not impacting our growth. We are doing very well at the hiring. There is certainly high demand for IT services – or IT talent – not just by us, but also by industry. So, there’s high demand. But we have a great model with our ownership culture and model, which is unique. And because of that, we get a lot of our new hires through referrals. And that’s up to nearly a third now in the current quarter. A third of our new hires are coming from referrals. So, we have a natural, built-in recruiting pipeline. Having said that, I’m not going to say that hiring isn’t important and continues to be important. But I don’t see it constraining our growth. And global delivery plays into that. It allows us to leverage the global delivery centers as well.

Thanos Moschopoulos

Analyst

Okay. In your prepared remarks, I think you made the comment about longer sales cycles with respect to some kinds of bookings. And just to make sure I heard that correctly, I think what you were saying is that, as clients are looking at larger engagements, that might be contributing to that dynamic. But if you could expand on that point and just make sure we heard that properly?

George Schindler

Management

Yep. You got that exactly right, Thanos. It really is just a matter of as the opportunities get larger, and as the focus gets sharper on the business return – which, by the way, we do very well. And those type of decision-making process, it does take a little bit longer. And I’ll point out – I think I made this point maybe last quarter, but when we look at the voice of our client results, what we see is our clients continue to say – more than half our clients say the deals are getting bigger over the next three years. So, we’re seeing that. I would suggest maybe this is the point where we’re moving into some of the middle innings. We’ve been talking some about being in the early innings of this digital transformation. We’re maybe moving into those middle innings, which again, I’ve been predicting we’ll do very well in.

Thanos Moschopoulos

Analyst

Great. And just one last one. On the IP side, is it primarily government and financial services driving that core strength or are there other verticals you would call out?

George Schindler

Management

No, I would say there’s other verticals. There’s also – we’re seeing that in utilities. We’re seeing that in insurance. We’re seeing even some of that in manufacturing. And, as I mentioned, we’re continuing to invest in the retail side. So, as you know, we have IP in virtually every vertical.

Thanos Moschopoulos

Analyst

Great. Thanks. I’ll pass the line.

George Schindler

Management

Thanks.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thanks, Thanos.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Steven Lee with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Steven Lee

Analyst

Thank you, George and François. I missed part of your prepared remarks. Central Europe and Nordic had strong growth from the M&A. Was there net organic growth in these regions? And if you can say, how significant? Thank you.

George Schindler

Management

Yes, we had – again, with the exception of the one-time adjustment due to a contract in UK/Australia, we had organic growth in every one of the regions. And, of course, in – particularly in the Central and Eastern Europe, and Northern Europe, we also had the inorganic growth. We had very little inorganic growth in any of the other regions.

Steven Lee

Analyst

Okay, great. Thanks, George. And your comments on Canada, your margin income there, to excluding restructuring closer to 20%, now last year you were approaching 22%. What’s changed from last year, or what was unusual last year?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, I think it’s just mix of business. We had some of those IP license bookings we’ll continue to sell. And our IP does very well in Canada. In fact, we’re doing very well, particularly in the banking space, around wealth – our wealth product. But it really is just those licenses. As we move more of those licenses towards a software-as-a-service, you can see some of that even out. So, that’s really what’s going on there in Canada.

Steven Lee

Analyst

And, George, that 20% – are we back to that level in the second half, or there’ll be structuring…

George Schindler

Management

There will be – there will continue to be some restructuring in the fourth quarter, but we’ll hit the ground running in FY2020.

Steven Lee

Analyst

FY2020, perfect. And, a quick one for François. In your MD&A, you mentioned some tax credits in the EBIT for the US. How significant was that? François Boulanger: Not that much in the quarter, but enough to put some explanation. But we have tax credit year after year, so it’s just the timing of it in the quarter.

Steven Lee

Analyst

Okay. Very helpful. Thank you. François Boulanger: Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Robert Young with Canaccord Security. Please go ahead.

Robert Young

Analyst

Hi. If you could talk a little bit about the UK, lots of uncertainty about how that’s going to roll out over the next couple quarters, if there’s a hard Brexit. Are you comfortable sharing any kind of scenarios there that you’re thinking about?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, thanks, Robert. We do have, as I mentioned before – we have a number of different scenarios. But what I would say now, in spending some time with our UK team, on the commercial side, it’s almost back to business as usual. IT services demand is high on the commercial side. A lot of the various industries and companies that we’re working with had done some of their own Brexit proofing. As I had mentioned, we did some of ours where we split some of our work for the European Space Agency, given the potential for Brexit. So, most of the companies are through that. And quite frankly, being a services provider, our business pipeline and bookings look to be strong and continue to be strong straight through that process, because everybody’s built some of that in. On the government side, I would say our strong suit really is – and has always been in the UK, around our really high-level work we do for the space – in the space industry. And, from every indication, that would only increase on a potential Brexit. And then, of course, right now we’re just in – the government is really, their attention is diverted toward their own scenario planning, if you will, and that just creates a temporary roadblock. But we believe that would – that really is just creating a pentup demand, again, independent of any decision. That’s why we look to have – be strong in both commercial and public sector moving forward regardless.

Robert Young

Analyst

Okay, great. Lots of color there. In Acando, I was wondering if you could talk about employee retention there, now that it’s been around for a little bit. You said it’s a bit of an SI&C focus and so are you able to retain some of these higher value consulting related employees? What’s going on there?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, no, that’s a good question. I wanted to talk a little bit about Acando. The integration is going actually very well. And, as you know, it’s split across a number of countries. But I’ll start with your question. Our advisory services continues to be strong, and that was really the high end consulting part of Acando. It’s really presenting to be very strong across metro markets. We always have a spike in turnover, it’s just the nature of a people business and change and how that impacts people. But, in fact, we’re very pleased with our retention on the advisory services and, most importantly, with some of the joint opportunities that that’s already driving. And I highlighted just one of those with a European bank in the – in my prepared remarks. So, again, very good. But I also want to highlight that, in Norway, where we actually doubled the business through the integration, that integration right now is ahead of schedule. It’s generating both bottom line and top line synergy, so very pleased with that. And then, Germany is going right on plan and we did mention that the divestitures that I mentioned last quarter have begun exactly as planned. And it’s working well. So, that’s mainly low margin or staff augmentation work. And so, that only increases the bottom line synergy. So, very pleased with how the overall integration’s going.

Robert Young

Analyst

Okay. And last question for me. You mentioned in the remarks that IT modernization is gaining priority this year, and I wanted to get some color to that. How do you see that as different from digitization – other drivers of the business? It seems as though that would be something that would be driven by larger customers, maybe more global customers, that speak better to CGI’s end-to-end global footprint. And maybe I’ll – if you could add some color there and I’ll pass the line.

George Schindler

Management

Yes, you’re exactly right. It really is the enterprise customers that have large legacy environments. And they’ve kind of gotten some of the benefits from their digitization efforts, but really, there’s a bit of a roadblock on some of their legacy and being able to connect that more holistically. And that’s really where we see the opportunities for IT modernization, and maybe where our offering is a little bit different. We begin with a benchmarking exercise really to determine where the best-in-class IT attributes – under best-in-class IT attributes, where a client is and regarding meeting the business needs. Then we really become an extension of their IT in order to bring in CGI best practices, global delivery, and IP to provide cost savings, which then is reinvested into – in a cofounding approach to being them the innovation they’re looking for. So, it’s really all three and it’s kind of bringing them together. And yes, you’re right. It’s the enterprise clients that are most interested in it.

Robert Young

Analyst

Is there any risk at all that that might drive a growth in your infrastructure side of the business?

George Schindler

Management

No. Drive growth in infrastructure?

Robert Young

Analyst

Yes. The infrastructure…

George Schindler

Management

It could as part of that end-to-end offering, it should and will drive some growth in our infrastructure business. But it will be connected to that end-to-end, which typically is a higher end offering for us. So, there’s no concern there.

Robert Young

Analyst

Okay, thanks. I’ll pass the line.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Paul Treiber with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Paul Treiber

Analyst

Thanks very much and good morning. I just wanted to dig into the UK business a little bit more. Just wanted to understand the nature of the infrastructure – the nonrenewal there. The MD&A last quarter also mentioned a nonrenewal. So, was that a partial quarter impact last quarter and you’re seeing the full impact this quarter, or do you see an expansion of that nonrenewal to other customers? And then, more broadly speaking, how large is that infrastructure business in the UK and do you see the potential for more nonrenewals? François Boulanger: No. It’s François. It’s the continuing impact of last quarter, where we didn’t have the full impact. So, since it’s a contract that we’ll have an annualized impact, it’s just the same impact that we talked about last quarter. So, it’s not more than that. As for the percentage, it’s mostly the same percentage across the company, and so we’re at the 15% of infrastructure in UK.

Paul Treiber

Analyst

Okay. That’s helpful. And then, just switching gears to the U.S. commercial business. I assume the margins were up quite a bit by the higher mix of IT revenue. Is that IT revenue recurring SaaS, or managed services, or is it one-time in nature? And do you see that mix or those margins as sustainable in the near-term?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, so the IP is a mix of both. It’s some software as a service. It’s some more traditional license and maintenance. It is a little bit higher, so it’s driving slightly higher margins. But we do believe we can continue to drive high margins through our mix of business. And again, if anything, I would say our IT demand in a slower growth market is actually higher because it can accelerate our clients’ IT investments and business returns.

Paul Treiber

Analyst

And then, just one last one. A clarification on the bookings number for Q3. Last quarter you mentioned there was a contract under protest. Did that protest get resolved, and were you able to recognize that in bookings? Or is it not yet?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, that actually – that was resolved. The one I was talking about in Northern Europe. It was resolved and that is in the bookings. And you saw the high bookings in Northern Europe this quarter.

Paul Treiber

Analyst

Okay. Thank you. I’ll pass the line.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thanks, Paul.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Maher Yaghi with Desjardins Securities. Please go ahead.

Maher Yaghi

Analyst

Good morning, and thanks for taking my question. George, I want to go back to your comment about the importance of IT as it becomes a more fundamental component of operations. I want to – the question I wanted to ask you is, as this – sorry. As this becomes more important, do you think there’s a risk that companies decide to in-house more of IT because it’s becoming more sustainable, more – the cost is more predictive? And I’m kind of thinking about CN, which you guys know a lot of about given your leaders the board. They’ve began to in-house a lot of work that was done outside to save costs. So, can you talk a little bit about – is this prevalent more and more in your territories, or you don’t see it a lot?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. Thanks for the question, Maher. Here’s what I see, and what we see around the globe as we engage with various clients. There’s really three aspects of what – the way they’re dealing with their IT. Some of it is in-house. Some of it is with external IT partners. And some of it is really freelanced, or subcontracted out in not a very organized fashion. And not to speak to any one individual client, but we see that relatively common. And what we’re seeing is some vendor consolidation, taking either some of those one-off individuals or even smaller niche providers – and this is part of that more focused business return approach and consolidating some of those to their strategic vendors. And that’s a two-phase approach I talked about that’s going on, particularly in central and Eastern Europe. But we’re seeing that also in North America. And then, taking some of those resources that were just contracted out and, if you will, insourcing those because those should be within the IT departments. And so, by doing that, what happens is our revenue grows, even if they get a little more of the skills in-house. Of course, that changes the dynamic in some of the freelancer community.

Maher Yaghi

Analyst

So when you look at it from a holistic point of view, you don't think the consolidation or the in-housing of more IT work, is a detriment to your organic growth in some parts of the world? Do you…

George Schindler

Management

That's not what we're seeing right now. That's correct.

Maher Yaghi

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

George Schindler

Management

We are seeing some of it, but we're not seeing that as an impact to us.

Maher Yaghi

Analyst

Okay. Great. Thank you very much.

George Schindler

Management

Thanks, Maher.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Stephanie Price with CIBC. Please go ahead.

Stephanie Price

Analyst

Good morning. In your prepared remarks, you mentioned long-term end-to-end contract pipeline is trending up. I think you mentioned over 20% year-over-year. Can you talk a bit about the verticals that you're seeing the most end-to-end demand in?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. This is – what's interesting is – and I'm glad you asked the question. We're seeing two things. As we move into the middle innings, if you will, of this digitization effort, there are some trailing – there were some trailing industries. So I would say utilities, governments, manufacturing and insurance. And we're seeing them just jump into the middle innings in doing some of this IT modernization very rapidly. But then also introducing in that digitization on top of it, so those are the industries we see as strongest. And I think I did highlight that in my opening remarks.

Stephanie Price

Analyst

Perfect. Thank you. And in terms of the contract adjustment in the UK and Australia, can you touch on that for a second? Is that going to be a one-time adjustment or how should we think about that going forward?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. That was a one-time project adjustment. As you know, we don't talk about clients or project specifically, but that was – it was just the one time, and it's past us.

Stephanie Price

Analyst

Okay, perfect. And then, just – finally, for me, in terms of – I think you mentioned more attractive valuations. Can you talk a bit about whether this is across the board or in certain regions and what you're seeing on the smaller versus larger deals?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. So what we see is, it's a little more across the board from the private company perspective. So we're seeing that both in North America and in all the European geographies. From a public company perspective, I'm sure you can see this yourself – more attractive valuations are down in most of the countries in Europe that we engage in – not so much in North America. So those valuations in North America are not becoming more attractive yet.

Stephanie Price

Analyst

Perfect. Thank you very much.

George Schindler

Management

Okay.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Daniel Chan with TD Securities. Please go ahead.

Daniel Chan

Analyst

Hi, thanks. Bookings in U.S. Federal were a bit light. Can you just provide a little more color on that? And just double-clicking into that, do you expect a new budget bill to help bookings in that segment recover?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. The good news in federal is not really due to the budget. The budget is actually pretty normalized. In fact, we're probably not going to see the big bump that we normally do in Q4 because we actually had a more normalized Q1 this year. So I don't think it's really has to do with the budget, and the budget particularly for IT continues to be strong. It's just really more of bookings tend to be lumpy, and that's why I highlighted the trailing 12-month. And it just so happens that the deals that we have our sights on – and remember, we're pretty disciplined in CGI Federal, in driving very high margins. We're very disciplined to go after deals that we can make bring value to the government customer and therefore drive higher margins for CGI. And some of that, obviously, is related to our intellectual property. So, it just so happens that the deals that we have our sights on, which I highlighted, we’re about $5 billion worth of deals. I haven't been, we're a little bit slower to come to fruition. And we're pretty disciplined to really go after the deals that we believe we have the highest probability of wining and can drive the margins that we're accustomed to.

Daniel Chan

Analyst

Thanks. That's very helpful. And the contract that was announced yesterday with the Navy and Marine Corps, was that booked in the quarter or was that after the quarter?

George Schindler

Management

No, that was actually last quarter. So that was not in the quarter. Obviously, that would've been – that would've driven a different book-to-bill came in at the end of last quarter. But the good news is, it's in and it's IP, and it's going to drive growth for us in the future both top and bottom line.

Daniel Chan

Analyst

Okay. And just switching gears a little bit, you've mentioned the metro markets acquisitions as an upsell opportunity. What metrics are you introducing and tracking as you execute on this strategy? And how are you doing to date?

George Schindler

Management

Yes. So what we measure actually, when the new mergers come in, we look at all the customers where we had work with both sets of customers, and we track did we grow our wallet share within that customer. Not just one plus one equals two, but is it one plus one equals something greater than two. And then, we separately look at the customers that they're bringing and we track how many new services from CGI are we bringing to the table and I highlighted one of those in my opening remarks. And then, of course, we're also looking at, can we introduce and particularly for Acando, for example, can we sell some advisory services into existing CGI customers that Acando did not have. And so we're measuring all three of those. We have a scoresheet, as you might imagine, as metric-driven as we are. And I personally have a call with the integration team where we evaluate that.

Daniel Chan

Analyst

Great. Thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Jim Schneider with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Jim Schneider

Analyst

Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Congratulations on the margin improvement in the quarter. I was wondering if you could maybe talk about how much incremental margin expansion you might expect over the next couple quarters and how much of that is from internal cost initiatives versus anything you would be doing on the Acando side specifically.

George Schindler

Management

Yes. No. Thanks, Jim. It's a mix of both. But the most important way that we believe and we're confident that we can continue to get margin expansion is really through this mix of business. When we have the proper mix of business, you see some of the margins we're driving now across North America, and we're able to drive those because we have that rich mix of long term recurring revenue mixed with the SI&C to make sure we're at the tip of the sphere connected with the business, and their business initiatives, but then also complimented by the intellectual property across, and a healthy mix of Software-as-a-Service as well as the traditional license and maintenance. And so, when we get those – that right combination, you see the kind of margins we drive in North America, and are consistently doing that. That opportunity still exists in most of the geographies we work in Europe. So, that will continue. Yes, we do get some opportunities to ongoing restructured business. I just mentioned what were’ doing in Canada. That will drive higher margins. And yes, we’re taking the opportunity, as we bring in Acando, to make sure that we have the best mix of business to drive forward. So, there’s really two or three things that give me confidence that we can continue to drive margin expansion.

Jim Schneider

Analyst

That’s helpful. Thanks. And then, that leads me to my second question, which is on your mix of business. You kind of talked about the outsourcing business. Do you – having better mix over time. Do you expect that your outsourcing mix will be materially higher in say two years relative to the SI&C workloads? And…

George Schindler

Management

Yes. That is the plan, Jim. That is the plan. And we do see a path to doing that, which is why I highlighted the pipeline is our best indicator that we’re moving on that path.

Jim Schneider

Analyst

That’s great. Thanks so much.

George Schindler

Management

Thanks, Jim.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thanks, Jim.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Howard Leung with Veritas Investment. Please go ahead.

Howard Leung

Analyst

Thanks. George, I just wanted to ask about – touch on one of the comments that you brought up, which was the longer sales cycle for certain modernization contracts. Does that factor in your thinking at all in terms of your target revenue mix?

George Schindler

Management

Does that factor into the…

Howard Leung

Analyst

Yes.

George Schindler

Management

It takes us a little bit longer to get to that revenue mix, but again, we’re into that path. And as I maybe have mentioned before, Howard, the buying behaviors over the last few years has really been focused on these – what I call digital interventions. As we now take those digital interventions and move them more holistically across the enterprise, the deals get larger – good news. But actually, they take a little bit longer because they’re a more complex opportunity. So, that’s – yes, that drives maybe some of the change in the mix because it takes a little bit longer to get there, but we’re on that path.

Howard Leung

Analyst

Right. Right. That makes sense. And then, just maybe one for François. The DSO – the increase to 52 days – I think it was mentioned that part of it was driven by Acando having longer DSOs itself. Were there also any – was it also driven maybe by some of the – were there any fair value adjustments to the deferred revenues for Acando that drove that as well? François Boulanger: No, not all of – they have a lot of short-term mandates, so it’s more SI&C and nothing on the outsourcing side. So, not much of deferred revenue on their side. And that’s why DSO’s a little bit higher than the average of CGI. But we will work on that to be – to bring it back to our own standard.

George Schindler

Management

You can be sure of that.

Howard Leung

Analyst

All right. Sounds good. Thanks, guys. I’ll pass the line.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thanks, Howard. Eric, I think we’ll have time for one last question.

Operator

Operator

Great. Thank you. The next question is from Deepak Kaushal with GMP Securities. Please go ahead.

Deepak Kaushal

Analyst

Oh, hey, guys. Good morning. Thanks for squeezing me in and taking my questions. It’s been a while.

George Schindler

Management

Hey, Deepak.

Deepak Kaushal

Analyst

So, I hear longer sales cycles, some normalization in budget in the U.S., and lower bookings. Are you guys signaling a slowdown in the U.S.? And is this a one- or two-quarter phenomenon? How should we think about this?

George Schindler

Management

Yes, I don’t see that that way at all. I think it’s more of just the nature of where our clients are right now. I think there’s a slight pause that we’re seeing, and I had been predicting some of that. So – but I don’t see anything more systemic there. I do think the systemic approach will be the shift to more of these IT modernization and given maybe even the specter of a slowdown. But I don’t see it signaling anything other than that for us.

Deepak Kaushal

Analyst

So, none of that is related to any macro or microeconomic factors? How are your customers thinking about it?

George Schindler

Management

No, this quarter, that’s not what I see. I think, again, on the macroeconomic side, and the slowdown – I’ve talked about this the last few quarters – our clients are preparing for that. That’s really driving some more of the vendor consolidation, more of the focus on the business returns, a little more focus on practical innovation – all trends that play very well to the CGI story. So, we actually believe we can do very well in that environment.

Deepak Kaushal

Analyst

Okay, thanks, George. That’s helpful context. I do have one follow-up on – it’s a minor thing you mentioned in your prepared remarks. I think you said that valuation in some European markets on M&A targets was looking attractive. Can you talk about what regions those are in, or perhaps what’s driving attractive valuations and where you…

George Schindler

Management

Yes, well – and on the public sector side, it’s really just – while our stock has done very well, some others haven’t – have been exposed to different elements in the – macro elements in the European market. That’s – there’s no more or less than that.

Deepak Kaushal

Analyst

Okay. That’s helpful. Thanks again. I appreciate you taking my questions.

George Schindler

Management

Okay.

Lorne Gorber

Management

Thanks, Deepak. And thank you, everyone, for joining us. We’ll see you back first week in November for our Q4 and fiscal year end results. Thank you.

George Schindler

Management

Thank you. François Boulanger: Thank you.