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Interactive Brokers Group, Inc. (IBKR)

Q4 2014 Earnings Call· Tue, Jan 20, 2015

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen everyone and welcome to the Interactive Brokers Group Inc. 2014 Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later we will conduct a question-and-answer session and instructions will be given at that time. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, today’s program maybe recorded. I would like to introduce your host for today’s program Deborah Belevan, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Deborah Belevan

Analyst

Thank you, operator, and welcome, everyone. Hopefully by now you’ve seen our 2014 earnings release, which was released today after market closed, and which is also available on our website. Our speakers today are Thomas Peterffy, our Chairman and CEO; Paul Brody, our Group CFO. They’re going to start the call with some prepared remarks about the quarter and then we’re going to take questions. Call may include forward-looking statements which represent the Company’s belief regarding future events and by their nature are not certain and outside the Company’s control. Our actual results and financial condition may differ possibly materially from what is indicated in these forward-looking statements. We just ask that you refer to disclaimers in our press release and you should also review a description of the risk factors contained in our financial reports filed with the SEC. I'd now like to turn the call over to Thomas Peterffy.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

Hi, good evening everyone, and thanks for joining us to review our fourth quarter performance. Our pretax earnings of $74 million for the quarter and $506 million for the year, as reported in US dollars, were seriously impacted by the rising dollar against most major currencies represented in the global. Without that impact these earnings would have been $180 million and $692 million respectively. Brokerage income makes up $589 million or 85% of this total. As usual we have set new records in our brokerage business both for the quarter and for the year. And the new year was taking off with even better numbers until last Thursday when it all exploded in our faces. The forex markets were shaken by the shocking and unprecedented action of the Swiss National Bank which left many investors and companies devastated by the move, including a handful of our own customers that held large currency futures and forex positions. These customers’ suffered losses in excess of their deposits with us to the tune of about $120 million, which amounts to 2.3% of our total equity capital. Normally our automated risk controls would liquidate client positions to prevent such losses, but in this case the move was instantaneous and we were unable to liquidate. We do have full recourse to recover these losses but that will take time. The largest five losing accounts amount to about 80% of the losses and none of them are US entities. I will point out that this development presents an opportunity for us to attract displaced or shaken customers that realize the importance of being with a well-capitalized broker so we would expect this to contribute to account adds this quarter. I would also like to call your attention to the fact that while some banks disclosed their…

Paul Brody

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

Thank you, Thomas and welcome everyone to the call. As usual I’ll first review the summary results and then give segment highlights before we take questions. First I’d like to give a few words on the changes to our presentation of currency effect. We maintain our net worth in GLOBAL, a basket of 16 major currencies. Since we are a U.S based company we are required to report our gains and losses as the U.S dollar value of the GLOBAL increases and decreases over each reporting period. In the past the effects of this currency diversification we reported as components of first Market Making trading gains and second, other comprehensive income known as OCI. During the fourth quarter of 2014 we took several steps to make our currency strategy more transparent which we believe will bring more clarity to understanding the results of our operating businesses. First, we transferred nearly all of the currency spot positions held as part of our global composition from the market making unit to the parent holding company IBG LLC. Second, we changed our accounting presentation to report all currency translation gains and losses related to the GLOBAL as other income instead of trading gains. And third we changed our accounting presentation to report these gains and losses in the corporate segment instead of the Market Making segment. As a result of these actions we have isolated the income statement effects of our currency diversification in the corporate segment there by leaving a clearer picture of the core operating results in the Market Making segment. The new reporting method is also reflected in the comparative historical periods contained in our financial statements and these changes had no effect on total consolidated net revenues or on net income. We hope that these changes help to clarify…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Rich Repetto from Sandler O'Neill. Your question please.

Rich Repetto

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

Yes, good evening and congratulations again on the records and brokerage customer equity in trading as well as accounts. So Thomas, I guess the question is, you’ve never given us a feel for how much -- whether it’s FX in brokerage, how much is FX versus stocks versus options, and I guess now given this environment, it sort of comes to everybody’s attention. So I was just wondering is there any ballpark feel? And then also a follow up question on the FX issue. What leverage did you offer, and when you talk about possible recourse or you used some words to that effect, could you tell us what areas -- how much could you reasonably expect is 25% recovery rate over time? I know you mentioned over time more realistic or what number should we be thinking about?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

Personally Rich, I wish you’d asked one question at a time. So you have to be aware, we never discuss this, but the fact is that roughly three quarters of the forex loss, customer loss comes from Merc futures. Chicago Merc futures on the Swiss versus the Euro. We were following the exchange margin unfortunately and the exchange margin was only 1%. So now your next question is -- so I don’t think that -- you see that’s kind of business which is future’s -- regulated future’s business is not included the way we look at forex revenue, because we look at futures as futures, no matter whether they are ex futures or equity future’s or currency futures, they are futures.

Rich Repetto

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

Now I understand what you’re saying.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

So it’s not really very meaningful to look at these loss against our forex income, all right? Now as to our chances of correcting on this loss, it’s awfully hard to say. The fact is that none of the -- big accounts, none of them are in the United States and at this point in time I’m not even sure of what the laws are in the five different countries where -- I mean one country is Spain where I think we can prevail easily. But Hong Kong is probably going to work out but then the three other countries where I’m not sure.

Rich Repetto

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

Okay understood and just I guess follow up would be…

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

And also sorry, just one more thing to say about that. We also do not know as to the financial viability of these customers. So even if we may be prevailing in the course, we do not know if they actually have the money that we can freeze.

Rich Repetto

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

Got it. So recoveries are almost impossible to forecast and it is what I’m taking. And I guess, since that was a multiple question, I’ll just ask one more and that will be it. Is -- I guess when you look at this quarter, it was -- fourth quarter, there was higher volatility and I guess on the brokerage side was there anything that you saw different, given the higher volatility and given that your customer base now was getting bigger average size accounts, more institutional like. Was there anything that surprised you in regards to growth, given that this -- we got our good strong volatile quarter in a while.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill. Your question please

It’s been very steady. So the growth -- there has been strong growth but it’s been very steady. So I have seen that we can basically extend it for the future along a straight line for at least the next several quarters.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please.

Niamh Alexander

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

Thomas, I think it’s a little surprising I guess that it was in the futures area. But when the leverage is – I guess a little bit more in the forex area, especially in the U.S and perhaps it explains it. But to go forward, I understand what you were saying, it was instantaneous, even though you close people out in real time, this is instantaneous. But have you made a decision to require a little bit more collateral than the exchange standards because some other futures commissions merchant do it. Because essentially you’re on the hook for customer losses in that model. So are you looking at maybe upping the margin requirements little bit?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

Yes we are. We continuously look at this. There are many, many futures where we charge more than the exchange minimum. Basically our formula says, to charge the higher of three standard deviations of daily moves or the exchange minimum. And it just so happens that three standard deviation…

Niamh Alexander

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

Yes, the currency that was pegged.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

The euro was infinitesimal. So it was just a -- I can say anything but it was a huge screw up. At the time that they instituted the peg, we should have made a big mark in our book and assign somebody to look out this regularly.

Niamh Alexander

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

So where there are the other pegs in place and with currencies diverging, are GLOBAL banks diverging across the road? Is it fair to assume that you are taking a look at where there might be other pegs and you are currently kind of applying a similar margins scenario?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

Is there from now, but if any other any currency gets pegged because we know that no peg will last forever. Whenever any currency gets peg we surely are going to be on top of it.

Niamh Alexander

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

Okay. And then if we could, and I know Richard asked earlier, but it would be a great time maybe just to get a little bit more information on your forex business. Because it’s hard to even know for example what the average daily value traded is. Just to put in context so it’s may be revenue opportunity or something or how much of your business is in that forex business. Now not the futures, just forex. And then with that as well, what kind of average leverage do you typically extend for that product.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

So the major currencies we attach 2.5% so 40:1. And the forex commissions coming from cash forex. Now I’m not talking about daily futures, which is I said before we look at the future business. Cash forex commissions make up roughly 9% of our commission income.

Niamh Alexander

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

9%, okay, that’s helpful. Thank you. And then just a question if I could ask and I’ll hum back, just your thoughts on -- given that the magnitude of the moves that have been -- some of the losses that have been announced and then you’ve indicated just based on what you’ve seen that you expect there might be more customer losses, just not officially announced or anything that on the institutional side. You think this is going to maybe drive some regulatory change and increase the margin requirements or some force kind of hands -- we’ve heard -- we’ve seen the NFA, the futures association in the U.S. kind of say, they’re going to revisit margin requirements, but a lot of the higher leverage is allowed overseas. So do you think this is going to drive some change and maybe capping the leverage a bit?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Niamh Alexander from KBW. Your question please

So you see the FINRA proposed or maybe the CFTC, I’m getting a little bit confused they wanted a 10:1 leverage, and the industry -- and that’s only for brokers, because of course banks come under different regulations. So the way we view this was that if that put us to 10:1 and the banks remain at 100:1 or wherever they are, then we would basically be out of business. So we were trying to continue to press them to allow us to do this thing. But I really think that this event -- and I’m sure that big bank customer losses will surface, because as you know, you cannot match the wining customers against the losing customers. The winning customers get paid under losing customers to the extent they lost more than the money they had, the bank will have to pay. So I’m sure that there will be big amounts surfacing and I’m sure that that will have an impact on both Europe and U.S. banking regulations.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please.

Mac Sykes

Analyst · Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please

Thank you for the accounting changes it’s very helpful. On a more positive note, if you can give us some commentary on the opportunity in Asia again, with respect to the opening of the Chinese listings or maybe if you could talk about whether this material cow is for trading or asset gathering. Thanks.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please

I don’t know if we probably sized it enough, but we have been on this link servicing customers both ways, actually not both ways, from outside China to inside China and we had a substantial portion of that business, but the business itself is really a disappointment, because there is not much happening along these lines and now that the Chinese are cracking down on the local brokers, I don’t expect this business coming out of China to increase and -- so I mean -- it’s a disappointment to -- just to summarize this in one word.

Mac Sykes

Analyst · Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please

That’s okay.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please

But our Chinese and Hong Kong and generally forex business is continuing to ramp up at a faster pace than any of our other geographies.

Mac Sykes

Analyst · Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please

Okay. And then there have been some rumblings on the U.S. side in terms of corporate tax structure reform and maybe foreign repatriation. Have you been following it at all and is there any implications that could be a read through for your business structure or -- both domestically or foreign.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Mac Sykes from Gabelli. Your question please

I’ll be honest about this. I have not been following this. I never follow the tax conversations up until they are actually put into effect.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please.

Chris Harris

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

So first question is about growth at the broker. Clearly a very strong year for you guys there, best year for account growth since 2011. You guys have identified the five customer segments for us and just wondering if you could expand on that a little bit. Kind of curious to see if you can parse out which segments are driving the majority of that growth, or if it's really just been across the broad broad-based, everything really doing well?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

As I have said, geographically the Far East is stronger than the rest. Europe is possibly the weakest as far as which segment grows the fastest. Its financial advisors -- registered financial advisors and introducing brokers, but also hedge funds and maybe even prop traders. So the only segment that’s shrinking -- it’s not really shrinking but it’s growing slower than the overall business is the individual investors. And I think that’s just as well because we would like to grow our business -- overall business faster than we want to grow our customer service center. So to the extent that we get individual customers by our intermediaries, who are financially more sophisticated and deal with the handholding of those individual customers, I think that is our -- that is that all we want to go and I think the story bears that out, the number is very tough.

Chris Harris

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

With respect to the hedge funds, kind of curious, away from the big banks, who are your primary competitors there as it relates to prime brokerage? And maybe not specific names, but is it fairly a deep competitive bench or is it really just the big banks or just a few select smaller niche players like you?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

It is just the big banks. We do not see hedge funds. There are some sub primes who basically execute for hedge funds and give it up to banks. So some were recently purchased by Wells Fargo, youre firm, right. So you know about that. But generally it's just the big banks.

Chris Harris

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

That’s what I thought. I just want to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. A few numbers questions then if I could Paul, perhaps for you. I know you guys give a lot of information in here but I’m still not quite sure if I can reconcile exactly what your earnings were this quarter, just kind of excluding all of the FX. I know last quarter was $0.25. I think you guys gave that on the call. Do you happen to have that number handy just as a frame of reference?

Paul Brody

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

Sorry, which number are you referring to Chris?

Chris Harris

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

Just the earnings number, excluding kind of everything FX related. So kind of like a core earnings number if you will?

Paul Brody

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

Yes, the numbers that we publish and release itself are all adjusted for that and what you see is the effects of the currency showing up in other income and then in Corporate segment. So other income on the overall income statement and in the corporate segment and the segment reporting and it's removed from Market Making. So you are already seeing the impact to that. We didn’t publish an equivalent EPS, but there will be more information in the 10-K and in the following 10-Qs to come because the competitive time periods will all be in there. They all will be adjusted accordingly.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

It's very difficult to project the -- what that per share equivalent would be of the un-impacted earnings because the tax rates are not linear.

Chris Harris

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

Right. One other numbers question really quick. In the restated Corporate segment, the net revenues that you have there, I know all the FX resides there now. Is there anything else in that revenue number and I’m assuming there is. And so can you let me know what exactly the revenue impacts from FX was in the quarter?

Paul Brody

Analyst · Chris Harris from Wells Fargo Securities. Your question please

It was the overwhelming majority of the amount in Corporate. There is a little bits of other things and we hold certain relatively small investments and the overwhelming amount was related to the FX change in accounting presentation.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please?

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

I wanted go back to a comment that you made about three quarters ago after first quarter earnings. And you mentioned that 60% of your new accounts at that point were coming from outside the United States and countries where you had only scratched the surface. Is there an update on that number?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

It’s fairly steady. It may have changed by 1% either way, but I don’t think by any more than that.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

And in the same vein, you mentioned it 25% or one quarter of your new accounts were from client referrals. Is that something that is tracking similarly as well?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

I tell you frankly, I haven’t looked at that lately. So I don’t know. But I know that the bulk of our -- actually I do look at it, but I haven’t broken it out in percentagewise. As a matter of fact, yes. So I think -- I vaguely recall 9,800. So given 40,000 this year... So 25% is right.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Okay, and those are basically situations where you are paying a referral fee?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

No, in the minority of the cases we pay a referral fee. In the majority of cases, it’s just people saying to each other, I have an account at Interactive Brokers and I think you should try.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Okay. And then I guess further on the account growth question, and one of the other analysts sort of touched on it, but -- so in 2012 you grew about 10.8% in terms of new accounts and then it was 14% in ’13 and 17.5% in ’14. Is that a trend that -- it’s kind of an accelerating trend? Is that a trend that you think is pretty stable or how do you think about the account growth trend going forward?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

All I can tell you is that I am surprised that it’s not ramping up faster. So I think that next year will be over 20%. That’s what I think.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

You think new accounts will be over 20% next year.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Right.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Okay. That’s all. And that goes to my other question which was, you said something earlier in the call about growing in a straight line or running it out for the -- I can’t recall what you said. So could you repeat your thought on that?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

I would tell I don’t remember what the question was.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

And the last question and then I’ll. So you are on TV this morning and it’s got to be frustrating for you. I think as a shareholders it’s frustrating for me, when you are on CNBC and the anchors themselves seem do not really know much difference between IB and FXCM. How does that go to your thought on branding and kind of just awareness?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

We have started an effort to convince the Bloomberg and Wall St Journal et cetera to show our overall numbers, and not just the publically held shares.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Okay. And I guess last, there is really nothing new on the market maker other than you are not investing and head count is coming down, but just the scalability of the business, I mean you sit here and look at 2014 pretax margin, I guess -- in the fourth quarter. So a clean number with no one-time items, you are up 600 basis points in pretax margin on an adjusted basis, adjusting out the one time item last year. Now that’s almost like a software company. So how does -- how do you get that to shine through and how do you -- I think a lot of shareholders would love to see the market maker wound down. I know there are challenges; what do you do with the capital, you’re frustrated with. How do you think about it over the next year or two?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

We are going to maintain the market maker and we are going to do our best to make it profitable because I think it’s the last man. We could be the last man standing and so, as far as I can tell right now, we are going to continue with the effort, even though maybe on a lower scale.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

And do you do internal business plans for brokerage profit I know? It’s harder in the market maker but do you have an internal kind of goal, plan for the brokerage firm?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Sure. Yes, we have visions of fantastic things, but not --.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Okay, I’m talking in terms of employees, so.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

Okay.

Rob Koehn

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

I would assume they are in line with the things that you’re telling us.

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Rob Koehn from Ivy Lane Capital. Your question please

I do not like budgets, because the budget, if you don’t meet the budget, it doesn’t do any good and if you meet the budget, then it slows you down because you say well I’m at my budget, so I don’t need to do any better. So, I think that budgets don’t help to maximize your business.

Operator

Operator

Thank you, our next question comes from the line of Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please.

Chris Allen

Analyst · Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please

A couple of kind of clean up questions, Thomas, could you provide any color as you what type of customers, the five that incurred the majority of FX loss, were that they were hedge funds or prop traders or?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please

Of the five, one was an organization and four were individuals.

Chris Allen

Analyst · Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please

Okay, and then just going back to last year the Singapore loss, any update on that in terms of time frame of recovery, any progress in that front?

Thomas Peterffy

Analyst · Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please

That’s rolling along and progressing well. The next major hurdle will take place in March, and so far we won every court proceeding and so the large court appearance will take place in March and we’ll see. If not that time, then we will be able to try to go after the individuals and collect whatever we can.

Chris Allen

Analyst · Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please

Got it, and then just on the numbers, I think you’d -- Paul you mentioned that employees were up 9% period end, year-over-year. Compensation has been flat in the first half of this year to down in the back half. Is that due to incentive comp or shift in the types of employees you’re hiring? Any color on that would be great?

Paul Brody

Analyst · Chris Allen from Evercore. Your question please

It’s mostly the incentive comp and there are always some changes going on with the stock incentive plan but yes, it’s primarily the balanced compensation.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. This does conclude the question-and-answer session of today’s program. I’d like to hand the program back for any further remarks.

Deborah Belevan

Analyst

Thank you everyone, for participating today. And just a reminder, this call is going to be available for replay on our website and we’ll also be posting a clean version of the transcript on our Web site tomorrow. Thanks again for your time and have a great evening.

Operator

Operator

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen for your participation at today’s conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.