Earnings Labs

Loews Corporation (L)

Q3 2015 Earnings Call· Mon, Nov 2, 2015

$111.23

-0.95%

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning. My name is Jackie and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Loews Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Thank you. I'd now like to turn the call over to Mary Skafidas, Vice President of Investor and Public Relations. Please go ahead. Mary Skafidas - Vice President-Investor & Public Relations: Thank you, Jackie, and good morning, everyone, and welcome to Loews Corporation's third quarter 2015 earnings conference call. A copy of our earnings release, earnings snapshot, and company overview may be found on our website, loews.com. On the call this morning, we have our Chief Executive Officer, Jim Tisch; and our Chief Financial Officer, David Edelson. Following our prepared remarks this morning, we will have a question-and-answer session. Before we begin, however, I will remind you that this conference call might include statements that are forward-looking in nature. Actual results achieved by the company may differ materially from those projections made in any forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements reflect circumstances at the time they are made and the company expressly disclaims any obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements. This disclaimer is only a brief summary of the company's statutory forward-looking statements disclaimer, which is included in the company's filings with the SEC. During the call today, we may also discuss non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our securities filings for a reconciliation for the most comparable GAAP measures. I will now turn the call over to Loews' Chief Executive Officer, Jim Tisch. James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Thank you, Mary. Good morning and thank you for joining us on our call…

Operator

Operator

Our first question comes from the line of Bob Glasspiegel with Janney.

Robert R. Glasspiegel - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC

Analyst

Good morning, Loews. Jimmy, that's the most optimistic and open about valuation considerations for your subsidiaries. And I don't think you've ever before on a call, correct me if I'm right, foreshadowed that you might buy back stock for Loews if current valuations continue. In the past, you've had no common attitude about share repurchases and rarely you've ever commented that you thought subsidiary prices were cheap. What's driven the change in disclosure on buyback? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: First of all, there is no change in disclosure. And secondly, I don't know that there was any foreshadowing. I was commenting about what happened in the third quarter and what's been happening this year. I was expressing some of my frustration with valuation of Loews and our subsidiaries. And I want to make clear, do not confuse frustration with complaining. While I'm frustrated, I also consider this a golden opportunity. And I think we've taken plenty of advantage of it having repurchased over $750 million worth of our stock this year. But I caution you not to take what I said as foreshadow. Yes, I think the prices of our subsidiaries are depressed, but I don't know what that's necessarily going to mean in terms of our share repurchases going forward. We have lots of options. We consider – every day, we think about whether or not we want to buy shares, and there are always competing uses for our money. So we think about it and we can – as I think you know from our past experience, we can turn on a dime.

Robert R. Glasspiegel - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC

Analyst

I appreciate that. But I would still think from my experience listening to these calls, that was the most aggressive you've been in characterizing where the valuation of the subsidiaries are versus the sense of value? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: So, one other thing I should add. The share price declines of both Diamond as well as Boardwalk were nothing short of spectacular. So, two out of three of our subsidiaries had very bad share price performance during the third quarter. And as I said at the outset, that was the elephant in the room and I wanted to address it.

Robert R. Glasspiegel - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC

Analyst

Fair points. Thanks for your answers.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Josh Shanker with Deutsche Bank.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

Good morning, everyone. James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Good morning.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

So, if I calculate declared dividend yields on the various properties, you guys are generating about $350 million in cash to the parents each year. But I assume that there is a high probability that CNA does another special, let's just say that gets up to $500 million, $600 million. When you're thinking about share repurchases, since you have plenty of cash and you have competing uses, how do you think about how much you're willing to deploy to buyback your own stock. What is the sort of difference, I guess, tethers that you wrestle with? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: So, this year – I don't know where your numbers came from, let me give you mine. So, this year, we'll have about $800 million of cash flow from our subsidiaries and we've spent $750 million of that. We started the year with I think north of $5 billion in cash. And right now we have about $4.8 billion. So – and we like to maintain a minimum of, say, $1.5 million to $2 million – $1.5 billion to $2 billion at least. So we see that we've got cash flow coming-in in the form of dividend and we have $3 billion of capital that can used for lots of different purposes. Share repurchases, investments in our subsidiaries, a new business or as I like to say, if there is nothing to do, we'll do nothing with it.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

And what is the principal security that four-point-some-billion-dollars that's sitting. Is that in treasuries? Where is that right now? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: So, there is about I guess $400 million to $500 million in stocks and another $900 million-or-so in hedge funds of one sort or another, and then the rest is in money market instruments of one sort or another that are paying us very, very little.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

And in terms of the – I assume that obviously you can get that cash tomorrow. You're not selling stocks or the hedge fund positions in order to finance your repurchases, or maybe you are? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: No, we're not. But the equity positions, as you all know, could be liquidated rather quickly. And with respect to our hedge funds, that portfolio was designed in part to be able to be liquidated over a number of quarters.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

Okay. And I feel it will never be a full conference call without a hotel question. James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Go for it.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

All right. So, when you look at the map and you think about the network effects for business travelers, who need a – who want to be in a hotel network that has critical mass in all the major cities, how many more hotels do you need to be competitive from that perspective of a loyalty program? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: I would say a handful of hotels. I think that we've done – over the past four years or five years, we've covered a lot of the map with Boston, Washington, Chicago, we have two, Minneapolis and San Francisco. So, we've come a long way. There are – there are other cities that we'd like to be in. We're moving forward on plans to develop some hotels and we're looking to acquire others. So there's still room to go, but we're hard at work on it.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

And can you rank preference for buying a hotel outright, getting into a JOA or just doing the management of the property? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Listen, I like capital light. So, management is always number one, but with management, you don't control the asset, and in some ways, you don't control your own fate. A partnership is the next best thing because that's not capital light, but it's capital lighter, so that we don't have to put up all the money for the hotel. And the third alternative is for us to buy 100% of the hotel, which we have done a number of times. What we look to do when we buy 100% of a hotel is that over the next one year to two years we look to sell down a percentage interest in that hotel so we don't have as much cash invested in the property.

Josh D. Shanker - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

Okay. Well, thank you for all the answers. And good luck in the days to come. James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Michael Millman with Millman Research Associates.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

Thank you. Can you give us an idea, maybe a rough idea of what kind of growth you expect, say, in the next two years, next five years in Loews? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: In Loews Corp?

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

In the total value of earnings of Loews Corp, yes. James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: You know, Michael, I'm pleased to say that we don't make forecasts for our business. So, I can't really respond to you. What we talk about more than earnings is value and we talk about that over three years to five years. And let me just say, I would be disappointed if the value of Loews did not increase significantly over that time period.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

Would you care to define significantly? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: No. But I know it when I see it.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

One of those... James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Yes.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

And so, maybe looking at this with more of a magnifying glass is where – can you rank the contributions from your current subs and maybe future subs? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: So, when you say contributions, what do you mean exactly?

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

What I mean is, right now, roughly I guess CNA represents kind of two-thirds of valuation and going down a list? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: Okay. So, let me take a stab and tell me if I answered your question. So, CNA is the big gorilla in the room. CNA as you correctly say represents two-thirds of the value of Loews. And also generates probably – this past year, it generated 80% or 85% of our cash flow. Behind that are Boardwalk and Diamond Offshore. I would say that both are recuperating. Diamond Offshore, as you know, cut its dividend so that it could get off of the MLP treadmill. Cut that distribution in January and has been able to finance its growth with primarily internally generated funds, and as I said in my remarks, has very good growth prospects going forward. We're looking forward to that $1.5 billion of organic growth coming online. There is still more organic growth that they're hoping to put on the books. So even though Boardwalk doesn't – isn't paying out significant dividends, it is building its business and its network, and we're really very pleased with that. At Diamond Offshore, it is the strongest company in its industry. It has investment grade ratings, it's got cash available to it to invest, and it's just waiting for the opportune time to invest in more rig assets. Diamond Offshore, as you will recall, between 2006 and 2014 paid out $41 a share of dividend. So to Loews Corporation that represented almost $3 billion. And there was a time when instead of Diamond stock being $20 a share, it were seven times higher. So it represented very significant value to Loews. Now, I'm not predicting that Diamond is going to go back to $140 anytime soon. But I do think that in the fullness of time and once this oil cycle has played itself out and oil prices are back to where I would considered to be equilibrium prices that Diamond Offshore shares can improve as well. And then finally, I'd say that with respect to Loews Hotels, it doesn't have a lot of earnings, but it does have a lot of value. The hotels in our portfolio, many of them are the envy of a lot of people in the hotel business. And the goal of Loews Hotels is to continue building the value of the company. As I said, it may be difficult for you to see in the form of net income. We do show adjusted EBITDA as a measure to help give you some ability to get value of the business. But I'd simply end by saying that – as I've said before, I love all my children, I love all our businesses, and I think each one of them is doing well within the context of their industry.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

So, it's no mention of maybe the using – using your metaphor – to adopt any new children? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: We're always looking to do that. But right now, I can't love a child that I haven't yet adopted.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

So would you think that there is more opportunity now than there has been in the last several years? James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: To buy another business?

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

Yes. James S. Tisch - President, Chief Executive Officer & Director: No, I think right now, things are generally priced for perfection. And as I continuously say, we kick a lot of tires, but we just haven't found the right thing.

Michael Millman - Millman Research Associates

Analyst · Millman Research Associates.

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

That was our final question. And now, I'd like to turn the floor back over to Mary Skafidas for any additional or closing remarks. Mary Skafidas - Vice President-Investor & Public Relations: Great. Thank you, Jackie, and thank you all for your continued interest in Loews. The replay will be available on our website, loews.com, in approximately two hours. That concludes today's call conference.