John A. Haudrich
Analyst · George Staphos with Bank of America. Your line is open. Please go ahead
Yeah. George, this is John. I will take. Hey, George. I will start with that. Those questions. If we take a look at 2027. Obviously, we had a target out there, you know, before and we pulled that for now and we are going to replace it with year end guidance in the next call as we indicated. The key challenges is that the base for 2026 has softened. Right? And so instead of believing that the, you know, the floor was about a billion dollars, we are looking at, you know, $925 million to $950 million. So that made those previous targets particularly challenging in that regard. And so the first piece there is the base is softer by that, you know, call it sub-- $50 million to $75 million and that is a challenge. So now if we look at the various different pieces of the pie and I am looking at page 8 here, And just thinking first on more focusing on the EBITDA, You know, we do indicate net price is going to be up that is the hardest 1 to get a particular beat on. We understand our inflationary view right now, but, of course, with most of, you know, 2-thirds of our business being open market, it is harder to get a read on that. Of course, as we indicated, we expect positive net price against an inflation environment that is clearly going to be still elevated. But not what we experienced this last year. Right? So we were coming off of a crest of cost inflation. We are behind a big bubble of cost inflation. And we believe that cost inflation environment peaks on. Especially on the energy side in the first quarter and then starts to comp and move in the right direction. And I will touch base on your other 1 here in a moment. But then you have stable net sales. You have about a $170 million or more of Fit-to-Win benefits. We do believe that there will be some cost offsets so that, you know, other cats and dogs are working through like maintenance and things like that we are still refining through the through the budgeting process. But those are the big pieces, the big open element obviously being the commercial element as you know, which is in front of us at this point in time. When it comes to on the energy side, you know, we have revamped our energy management practices. Okay. We, as you know, we benefited from a 5-year contract very favorable rates that expired at the end of 2025, then we kind of have a bit of a mark-to-market this year, a big bubble there. Now we take a 5-year approach instead of a 3-year approach on energy management. And in the past where we would look to be substantially hedged going into the next year, for example, we look to be 100% covered on a rolling 12 month basis. And then obviously, it is stair steps down as you look into the future. So we are trying to take that approach to minimize the volatility that we see. And we also use various tools that allow us to either have, for example, traditional fixed forwards but other tools that kind of act like caps and collars where you can be protected within a range or a cap but allow you to benefit if prices come down off peak levels. So as I indicated, the rates at which we have right now are definitely favorable to the forward curve that you see in the TTF right out there. You know, George, I cannot give you specifics on this because it is a competitive element, going into the next year. But, you know, we believe our energy cost inflation will have crested, and then we will be getting back into what we believe would be very competitive and relative to the marketplace of energy costs going forward.