Operator
Operator
Welcome to the third quarter earnings call. [Operator Instructions] I'll now turn the conference over to Chairman and CEO, Craig Blunden. Please go ahead, sir.
Provident Financial Holdings, Inc. (PROV)
Q3 2015 Earnings Call· Wed, Apr 29, 2015
$17.20
—
Same-Day
-0.60%
1 Week
-0.24%
1 Month
+6.49%
vs S&P
+6.01%
Operator
Operator
Welcome to the third quarter earnings call. [Operator Instructions] I'll now turn the conference over to Chairman and CEO, Craig Blunden. Please go ahead, sir.
Craig Blunden
Analyst · Compass Point
Thank you, Kathy. Good morning everyone. This is Craig Blunden, Chairman and CEO of Provident Financial Holdings, and on the call with me is Donavon Ternes, our President, Chief Operating and Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I have a brief administrative item to address. Our presentation today discusses the company's business outlook and will include forward-looking statements. Those statements include descriptions of management's plans, objectives or goals for future operations, products or services, forecasts of financial or other performance measures and statements about the company's general outlook for economic and business conditions. We also may make forward-looking statements during the question-and-answer period following management's presentation. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties and actual results may differ materially from those discussed today. Information on the risk factors that could cause actual results to differ from any forward-looking statement is available from the earnings release that was distributed April 28, from the annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended June 30, 2014 and from Form 10-Qs that are filed subsequent to the Form 10-K. Forward-looking statements are effective only as of the date they're made and the company assumes no obligation to update this information. To begin with, thank you for participating in our call. I hope that each of you has had an opportunity to review our earnings release, which describes our third quarter results. You will note that this is the fourth consecutive quarter where our community banking and mortgage banking businesses are both profitable, subsequent to the less favorable mortgage banking environment, which developed approximately 2 years ago. We're pleased that the actions we have taken to overcome the more challenging environment have resulted in our improving financial results. In fact, in comparison to the same quarter last year, net…
Operator
Operator
[Operator Instructions] Our first question will come from Brian Zabora with KBW.
Brian Zabora
Analyst · KBW
A question on the pace of the buybacks. Your share price is getting a little closer to tangible book. If you're trailing above tangible book does that change the pace of buybacks at all?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · KBW
Yes, it could, depending upon how high it gets relative to our book value. On the other hand, we believe our franchise value for the company is certainly north of book value, perhaps by a substantial number. So even if we were to repurchase that something above book value, we still think that that's accretive to franchise value. But you do raise an interesting point, and as a result I think the capital return strategies will change to some degree between the composition or mix of buyback versus cash dividends.
Brian Zabora
Analyst · KBW
And then on the expense side, how much of the expenses were related to calendar first quarter seasonal expenses. Could you give you a sense on that, because expenses came in a little bit better than I was expecting, given the fact of the stronger mortgage production in the quarter?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · KBW
Really, the first quarter relative to the remainder of the calendar year are impacted by the employment taxes and alike, such that our high income wage earners are taxed before they hit their -- or were taxed on them before they hit their caps. But we don't describe or parse out what those implications are, but clearly the largest impact of operating expense increase in the March quarter was the result of increased variable compensation costs as a result of the higher mortgage banking funding volume.
Operator
Operator
Our next question will come from Jason Stewart with Compass Point.
Jason Stewart
Analyst · Compass Point
One was on gain on sale margin. I mean we're generally tracking gain on sale to be a little bit lower so far in April versus the first calendar quarter. But rate volatility is substantially different, and I think you highlighted that implication in your comments. Could you just talk about maybe what you're seeing or thinking those two variables, how rate volatility was going to impact that gain on sale margins in 2Q or at the start of June quarter?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Compass Point
I think if we contrast the beginning of our June quarter versus the March quarter, the first thing I would highlight is that the 10-year treasury traded in a range of somewhere around 168 basis points at the low to maybe around 215 basis points at the high, as I recall, entering January. And given that wide range and given the fact that production volume for refinance activity accelerated during the quarter, the implications for fallout ratio as well as hedging costs were higher, it seems to me in the March quarter than what we are currently seeing in the April quarter. As you point out, I think the range has been much narrower on the 10-year treasury from the beginning of April until today, probably 10 basis points rather than perhaps the 50 basis points I described in the March quarter. And as a result, we would expect our hedging costs and fallout ratios to decline to some degree in the June quarter. If we think about our loan sale margin from a historical basis, particularly as it relates to the six quarters we described in our investor presentation, we have a range of 125 basis points this quarter on the low-end to 159 basis points on the high-end. I would argue that that range is still intact, depending upon the volatility of interest rates in any given period.
Craig Blunden
Analyst · Compass Point
And certainly on the mix of product and the amount of early pay-off penalties that we have, that happened with these quickly refinancing loans.
Jason Stewart
Analyst · Compass Point
And then I think that GSEs have actually finished all of their buybacks for 2013 and prior. And it seems like activity is significantly lower there, at lease for you it is. How are you thinking about that reserve and activity on buybacks going forward for newly originated loans?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Compass Point
We look at our activity on a quarterly basis, as we roll through a particular quarter to get a sense of whether or not our individual experience is elevated or not. And then we also look at what's occurring in the industry to understand whether or not we have increased risk to determine what that reserve should look like. At the end of the day, we're carrying $731,000 recourse reserve, from $711,000 and $712,000 in two prior sequential quarters. It seems to me we have to have a reserve there. And even if our direct experience does not necessarily support, the small amount of reserve, at some point you just can't fall below these small numbers of recourse reserve. So we're probably at the lower-end of the range, as I think about the dollar amount of recourse reserve, unless we were to begin to experience increased activity.
Operator
Operator
We'll go next to Tim Coffey with FIG Partners.
Tim Coffey
Analyst · FIG Partners
In relation to the package of loans that you bought this quarter, are you seeing opportunities to do that going forward, perhaps are more attractive than what you've seen in the past?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · FIG Partners
Yes. We've always had a history of purchasing loans primarily multifamily or commercial real estate, we even historically have done participations in construction loans alone, that's currently not in our game plan. It could potentially be in the future. But, yes, I think the market dynamic is changing a bit. In that, we're finally able to price the production volume or the purchase volume in a way that makes sense to us in contrast to our self-originated product. But secondarily we're seeing the quality of the packages meet our underwriting standards, and I think that's primarily because we're really looking at loans from other regulated financial institutions, not necessarily unregulated sellers. And I think there are also some concentration issues, as it relates to regulatory oversight and what some of these lenders have done over the past few years, such that they are finally to the point of a significant concentration, and they are looking to unload some of those concentrations.
Tim Coffey
Analyst · FIG Partners
The yield on this package, specifically, what was it in relation to your portfolio loan yield about 3.87%?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · FIG Partners
It was a little bit lower than that when I factor in prepayments and the premium associated with the package, but it was not substantially lower than that. And in fact, it was relatively similar. It was even less of a difference relative to our current origination pricing. So it was a little bit thinner than our current production pricing and a little bit more, as it relates to the portfolio in general.
Tim Coffey
Analyst · FIG Partners
Given those opportunities and the purchase market, which has been holding on to a little more liquidity than you otherwise would just to be able to take on those opportunities?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · FIG Partners
Liquidity is an interesting question for us, because we're such a large mortgage banker relative to our total balance sheet. And in fact you saw our balance sheet increase by about $100 million from the December quarter to the March quarter, and that is all directly related to the loans held for sale. So if you look at our balance sheet, we moved out of cash balances into loans held to sale. And in fact the volume activity was so significant, we ended up borrowing $90 million from the Federal Home Loan Bank during the quarter. $30 million of which was long-term in nature, and that's described in our earnings release on one of the tables in the exhibits. And $60 million of that was short-term funding specifically directed toward the loans held for sale balance. So what we think about liquidity, we're running kind of two things, we're running short-term liquidity models, as it relates to mortgage banking; and we're running longer-term liquidity models, as it relates to kind of the permanent balance sheet or the less volatile balance sheet with respect to balance. So if rates, for instance, were to go up and mortgage banking activity were to decline, that $300 million on our balance sheet of held for sales goes to $200 million or $150 million or something less than $300 and that turns into cash, which can then be redeployed into loans held for investment.
Tim Coffey
Analyst · FIG Partners
And then Craig, in your prepared remarks you said you expected more improvements and credit quality going forward. Is there anything tangible that you anticipate near term, additional recoveries, decline in non-accrual loans?
Craig Blunden
Analyst · FIG Partners
We just see the economy generally getting better, Tim. And some of these loans have been slow to improve, but we just noticed it's a gradual improvement in credit quality. I don't think we were trying to discuss anything significant, but just that with the economy improving, we see credit quality getting better.
Operator
Operator
We now have a question from Tim O'Brien with Sandler O'Neill & Partners.
Tim OBrien
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
Craig, you talked about the possibility of the prospect of booking res mortgage loans maybe for investment, finding some of that business. Were you able to underwrite and close any res mortgage loans that you're going to hold for investment this quarter?
Craig Blunden
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
Yes, we had some. I think they're laid out in the chart presentation.
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
It's $8 million for the quarter.
Craig Blunden
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
It's not much. And we actually have more room, because if you look over last few quarters, because of payoff for the single family loans with portfolio and new originations were actually down a bit in single family on the portfolio. So we certainly have more room. The biggest problem is in a fixed rate market, it's difficult to find a lot of loans that fit our criteria for the portfolio.
Tim OBrien
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
And just out of curiosity, what kind of loans were those? I mean how are they structured?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
They were 5/1 ARMS.
Tim OBrien
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
And was there anything one-time in nature in P&L beyond the variable cost mortgage part of your business, and seasonal employment cost that you alluded to. Donavon, was there was anything else tucked in there?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
No. It was a pretty straightforward quarter from the operating expense side, other than the increased salaries and benefits expense, because of variable compensation tied to mortgage banking volume.
Tim OBrien
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
It looks like professional expenses were up just a smidge, is that seasonal?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
It's not seasonal. We described a piece of litigation that we're involved in with respect to employment classification in the June 30 Form 10-K. We're still involved in that litigation. And as a result, there are a little bit elevated legal fees and legal expenses.
Tim OBrien
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
And kind of given the status of that, is that likely to kind of stick around here or is that one-time in nature as far as this quarter is concerned or is it ongoing for a while?
Donavon Ternes
Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners
It's ongoing, until ultimately the litigation is resolved.
Operator
Operator
Gentlemen, we have no further questions. End of Q&A
Craig Blunden
Analyst · Compass Point
All right. Well, I want to thank everyone for joining us in our quarterly conference call, and look forward to speaking to everyone next quarter. Thank you.