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Quanta Services, Inc. (PWR)

Q3 2012 Earnings Call· Wed, Oct 31, 2012

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Quanta Services Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded today, Wednesday, October 31, 2012. And I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Kip Rupp, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Kip A. Rupp

Analyst

Great. Thank you, Luke, and welcome, everyone, to the Quanta Services conference call to review third quarter 2012 results. Before I turn the call over to management, I have the normal housekeeping details to run through. If you would like to have Quanta news releases and other information e-mailed to you when they occur, please sign up for e-mail information alerts by going to the Investors & Media section of Quanta Services' website at quantaservices.com. A replay of today's call will be available on Quanta's website at quantaservices.com. In addition, a telephonic recorded instant replay will be available for the next 7 days, 24 hours a day. That can be accessed as set forth in the press release. Please remember that information reported on this call speaks only as of today, October 31, 2012, and therefore, you are advised that any time-sensitive information may no longer be accurate as of the time of any replay of this call. This conference call will include forward-looking statements intended to qualify under the Safe Harbor from liability established by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements include all statements reflecting Quanta's expectations, intentions, assumptions or beliefs about future events or performance or that do not solely relate to historical or current facts. Forward-looking statements involve certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict or are beyond Quanta's control, and actual results may differ materially from those expected or implied as forward-looking statements. Management cautions that you should not place undue reliance on Quanta's forward-looking statements, and Quanta does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after this call. For additional information concerning some of the risks, uncertainties and assumptions that could affect Quanta's forward-looking statements, please refer to the company's annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2011; its quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and; its other documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which may be obtained on Quanta's website or through the SEC's website at sec.gov. With that, I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jim O'Neil, Quanta's President and CEO. Jim?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Quanta Services third quarter 2012 earnings conference call. Before I begin the call, on behalf of the Quanta management team, we would like to express our concerns to our friends, analysts and shareholders that may have been impacted by Hurricane Sandy, many of whom may not be able to participate on the call today. You are in our thoughts and prayers. After my operational overview, I will turn the call over to Derrick Jensen, Quanta's Chief Financial Officer, who will provide a detailed review of our third quarter financial results. Following Derrick's comments, we welcome your questions. We continue to see market momentum in our infrastructure segments, particularly our electric transmission and pipeline services. In addition, because of the many nuances in building major infrastructure projects in today's challenging environment, our customers have become more selective in choosing a construction partner that can successfully manage safety and environmental concerns, project timelines and execution while meeting budget expectations. Our third quarter performance reflects our customers' continued confidence in our ability to exceed expectations with consistent, safe and efficient execution. We are also -- we also expect strong demand for our services in the future from a broadening customer base as our infrastructure projects move forward. Our revenues in the third quarter were a record $1.69 billion, a 35% increase compared to the third quarter of 2011, and revenues for the first 9 months of this year have increased almost 49% compared to the same period last year. Our 12-month backlog is at record levels. Our employee count at the end of this year's third quarter was approximately 21,000, up 21% compared to the third quarter of last year and up 20% since the end of 2011. Although emergency restoration service revenues were $81 million for…

Derrick A. Jensen

Analyst

Thanks, Jim, and good morning, everyone. Today, we announced revenues of $1.69 billion for the third quarter of 2012 compared to $1.25 billion in the prior year's third quarter, reflecting growth of about 35% quarter-over-quarter. Net income attributable to common stock for the quarter was $96.4 million or $0.45 per diluted share as compared to net income of $52 million or $0.25 per diluted share in the third quarter of last year. Included in net income attributable to common stock for the third quarter of 2012 is $7.1 million of income or net benefit of $0.03 per diluted share, primarily from the release of income tax contingencies associated with the expiration of certain statutory periods that are no longer subject to audit. The growth in consolidated revenues in the third quarter of 2012 was driven by growth across all of Quanta's segments, as well as the incremental contribution of approximately $62 million in revenues from companies acquired since the third quarter of last year. Excluding the impact of revenues from acquired companies, organic growth for the quarter was 31%. Our consolidated gross margin increased to 16.6% in the third quarter of 2012 from 15.6% in 3Q '11. This increase was due to strong performance in each of our segments, as well as the impact of higher revenues, which improved our ability to cover fixed operating costs. Selling, general and administrative expenses were $124.3 million, reflecting the increase of $31.9 million as compared to last year's third quarter. This increase is primarily due to $16.7 million on higher salary and incentive compensation costs associated with increased levels of activity and profitability; approximately $5.1 million in increased professional fees, primarily associated with ongoing technology development costs, business development initiatives and legal matters; and $4.6 million in additional administrative expenses associated with recently…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Tahira Afzal of KeyBanc.

Tahira Afzal - KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc., Research Division

Analyst

First question is, you've had -- you're having such a strong finish to the year. As you look into 2013, Jim, what do you see as your key challenges for growth?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Well, Tahira, right now, we're seeing so much momentum. I think it's just -- getting resources is becoming more challenging, even though we are the preferred employer in the industry because we pay the best wage and provide our folks with good equipment to work with. So I think that would be the biggest challenge. I mean, we have momentum in our business. Going forward, the timing of projects is the challenge and the regulatory environment, while it's not as big an issue for us overall because we have so many projects going, trying to determine when a project is going to start, if there's a slippage of a month or 2, it could impact our forecast. But other than that, we're continuing to see momentum going into next year.

Tahira Afzal - KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc., Research Division

Analyst

Okay, great. And I'll have one more, and then I'll hop back in the queue. If you look on the electric transmission side and we've tallied up several fairly large awards that are still out there, and you're talking about $200 million to $500 million type of projects, from what we can see, that could be awarded over the next 12 months. As you look at that prospect list you kind of mentioned, could you sort of talk a little more about -- provide us a little more color on the drivers of some of these transmission opportunities that you're seeing?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes, I mean, there's going to be big project awards, there are big projects in the pipeline, and we're excited about that. But I think one thing that's really not understood is the small transmission market. The regulation that's driving the NERC compliance standards and the coal switching to natural gas, these are all going to be smaller segments of transmission, and that business is very, very active and is going to remain very active, and I believe in a growth mode for quite some time. You look at CREZ, I mean, CREZ is built. It's a big transmission project but you have to think about all the laterals and interconnects that are going to be built off of that. And in total, the amount of money being spent there is far more than what CREZ is. So the small transmission market for projects that we don't typically announce with a day-to-day work is very active, and that's over half of our business. And we expect the big transmission market to be active as well. So it's a really robust time in the transmission business, and I still think we're in the early years of a major transmission buildout.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Adam Thalhimer of BB&T Capital Markets. Adam R. Thalhimer - BB&T Capital Markets, Research Division: First, Derrick or Jim, can you help me to think about -- your Q4 revenue guidance is up single digits, but your total 12-month backlog, up about 19% in Q3. What's the relationship between 12-month backlog and then revenue over the next couple of quarters?

Derrick A. Jensen

Analyst

12-month backlog, overall, I mean, over the next couple of quarters, typically we would just run it about the 65% range as far as backlog as a percentage of revenue, as that relates to '12 and going into '13.

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I think the relationship, too, Adam, when you look at the fourth quarter -- I mean, first off, 12-month backlog is the best indicator of our business going forward. It's at record levels, it's strong. So that's an indicator that the next 12 months, we should see growth in our business, although we're not willing to quantify it right now. The fourth quarter guidance, we've got seasonality in the fourth quarter, we've got weather risks, the risk that projects will get pushed into the next period, we've got holidays, we've got this storm going on right now. So we think we can do better, but we're going to shoot the ball down the middle right now and give the guidance that we have. And hopefully we will do better, but we don't want to take a risk because of all of these factors and the fourth quarter being seasonal, primarily because of weather and holidays, that we have an issue hitting guidance. Adam R. Thalhimer - BB&T Capital Markets, Research Division: Okay, that's good. And then, for the second question, I wanted to ask about electric distribution. Jim, have you seen any -- has there been any changes there in demand in Q3? Some of the equipment suppliers saw some deceleration in demand on the distribution side, and utility returns maybe are softening a little bit. Are you seeing any utilities kind of cut distribution here?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

No, we haven't. From a comp standpoint, the third quarter in distribution was probably a tough comp at [ph] third quarter '11, but I mean, we're still seeing close to double-digit growth for the year. And really, we haven't seen any slowdown as many of the utilities are spending money on reliability. And that trend continues despite that we're in an election year. So we've been pleased with what we've seen so far, and we expect that trend to continue going forward.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Alex Rygiel of FBR. Alexander J. Rygiel - FBR Capital Markets & Co., Research Division: Two quick questions. First, you mentioned in your opening remarks that you're seeing your customer base broaden. And one of the strengths of Quanta through the years has been that your customer base had already been very broad. Can you comment a little bit further on that comment in your opening remarks?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes, well, I don’t want to give any names, Alex. I mean, I think that the current environment is, for our customers, that they're under more pressure to get projects done on time and underbudget or on budget, and it's very important. And we had more discussions with people that we haven't traditionally worked with in the past, and we believe that there will be opportunities that we'll execute on because we have the capabilities to get their projects done, on time and on budget. And we have the resources to do that. You will see some new customers for certain in '13. Alexander J. Rygiel - FBR Capital Markets & Co., Research Division: Excellent. And then secondly, can we dig a little bit deeper into the pipeline business, excellent quarter, 5.8% operating margin, up nicely from the second quarter. Can you put that into perspective and maybe give us some directional guidance on the mix of long-haul, large diameter versus shale work this year, and possibly, what that mix could look like next year and how it could help or hurt margins?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I would say that for '12, all of our work was shale-related, and we've done very well. I mean, we established a presence about 18 months ago, and from that point, we've built momentum. And we've gotten more volume and better margins because of that. I wouldn't think that a 50-50 mix next year would be out of the question. But that's not going to be 1 plus 1 equal 2, so we're going to have to probably be 1 plus 1 equal 1.5. But we will have some big pipe opportunities next year, and it could be a 50-50 mix potentially, big pipe versus shale work.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Will Gabrielski of Lazard.

Will Gabrielski - Lazard Capital Markets LLC, Research Division

Analyst

Can you talk about any impact you may have seen as the quarter, Q3, went along in the shales? Did you see any change in activity levels based on what's happening with the rig count or some of the commentary from the EMPs around expensing their or exhausting their capital budgets for this year and maybe waiting until next year to start spending again?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

No, Will, we haven't seen that. I mean, these EMP guys that we're dealing with, they're not going to shut rigs down for a quarter and then start back up in January. That's inefficient. I mean, we continue to see the drilling rig count on, particularly on the horizontal rigs in the liquid-rich plays, the count continues to be strong, and we haven't seen any pullback in that activity.

Will Gabrielski - Lazard Capital Markets LLC, Research Division

Analyst

Okay. And then for my follow-up I was just wondering if you could talk about the reliability side of your business, mostly on transmission. I've tried to ask this every quarter just to see how it's tracking, but the enforcement of some of the NERC reliability rules and how that's trending and what the margins are looking like in that work right now?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Well, it's 50% of our transmission business, and it's growing, if not the same, more than what our big transmission business has grown this year. It's significant, and it's going to be here for several years. And our customers are just on the very front end of spending money to comply with NERC reliability standards. And then on top of that, you've got FERC 1000, you've got -- which could impact us in '14 and '15; you've got the coal switching to natural gas projects, which is going to be 30, 60-mile type segment lines that need to be built off of new gas-fired generation that's going to be in the small transmission categories. So we've got a significant amount of opportunities in the small transmission market that's being driven by regulation. And that's going to help pipeline, too, because you're going to have to build gas pipelines, compressor stations, pump stations and all that, so that's going to really support our pipeline business as well. So it's all good stuff, good drivers right now in our business.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Noelle Dilts of Stifel, Nicolaus. Noelle C. Dilts - Stifel, Nicolaus & Co., Inc., Research Division: I was hoping you could speak a little bit about the opportunities that you're seeing in Canada in terms of both electrical and pipeline and how that compares to the U.S. And I've been hearing that -- we're on the pipeline side, in particular, have been hearing that labor is tight in Canada, so I'm wondering if you're seeing a shift toward negotiation and away from competitive bid in the Canadian market on the pipeline side.

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I can just tell you that the same drivers in the U.S. are in Canada today as far as both electric transmission and on pipeline. And it's a very active market, and we're well positioned in Canada from a competitive standpoint to take advantage of those opportunities as they present themselves. Really in almost every province in Canada, there's opportunities. It's the same progress that we see in the U.S. It's just about 18 months behind the activity here in the States. Noelle C. Dilts - Stifel, Nicolaus & Co., Inc., Research Division: And then on the labor side, is there -- is the tightness in labor pools similar to the U.S. or is it a little bit tighter in Canada on pipeline?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I would say it's as tight or if not, tighter in Canada than it is in the U.S. So everyone's going through a skilled labor, both the pipeline industry and the electric industry are going through labor shortfalls right now as the demand continues to increase for the services our customers need.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Andy Wittmann of Robert W. Baird. Andrew J. Wittmann - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: I wanted to just kind of dig into the pricing environment in the electric business specifically and there's a fairly large project that went out this past quarter that -- your name had been circled around. There's probably -- you guys have been kind of a higher quality service provider, and this is a project that I assume that you didn't want to price it at some of those levels that we're seeing in it. Can you just talk about the level of competition on price today, and what maybe your passing on that job means for the rest of the environment that you might be looking at in terms of other projects?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes, Andy, you can't take one project and think that, that's going to set pricing for the industry. I mean, it's a very regional dynamic and it also depends upon the size of the line, the scope of the line, what geography, what type of geography we're in. So we're not going to win every job. I'll tell you that our philosophy on pricing hasn't changed, if anything, prices should go up because the demand for our services continues to increase. So I wouldn't read anything into us winning -- not winning a project that everybody had circled for us to win. I just think that you can't do that. The pricing dynamic in the industry still continues to be very strong. Andrew J. Wittmann - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Okay, that's helpful. And then just maybe totally different, but I guess somewhat related also. On the margins, were there any project closeouts in the quarter, Derrick or -- and can you also just quantify the absolute dollars of storm? I know you said $11 million or $16 million more this year than last, but can you just give us the absolute dollar amount for storm?

Derrick A. Jensen

Analyst

Sure. The absolute dollar amount for storm for the consolidated basis is about $81 million for the quarter. And then relative to your question about closeouts, I mean, we obviously have starts and stops of all the jobs, but there was nothing material associated with any impacts for the quarter forward for those starts and stops.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Scott Levine of JPMorgan. Rodney C. Clayton - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division: It's Rodney Clayton here for Scott. First, I want to ask about your Energized Services offering, obviously, you've got a nice award there from AEP, and certainly it looks like that's a service where you have a competitive advantage and what differentiates you from your competition. What's really stopping, I guess, the greater -- the percentage of your customers from adopting this type of approach when they're planning projects, is it just price or is there some other reason why that couldn't become a greater percentage of your business?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Well, I think that Energized Services is going to be more important to our customers going forward. The NERC compliance work is going to be an important driver for that business. When you have 1 transmission line into an area that needs to be upgraded because it's not in compliance and that the customer can't or it's not cost effective to acquire a new right-of-way or take the line out of service because the customers will have interruptions for too long of a period of time, so this is a perfect application in technology that becomes cost-effective at that point to utilize. That's why AEP is using this technology. So again, upgrading this older infrastructure having 1 line in and out of the load center, it gets to the point of right-of-way issues and everything else. It just makes it a lot more cost effective and more efficient for the customer to use this technology going forward. So we're pretty excited about the opportunities we have for Energized Services in the future. Rodney C. Clayton - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division: Okay, got it. Very good. And I guess one more follow-up. I want to ask about Howard Energy Partners, just in general, how is that venture going, and how does your project pipeline look as you get to work in the Eagle Ford shale?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Howard Energy is going along like we expected it to. The investment is giving us opportunities. The Eagle Ford is very early in development. And we are seeing engineering and construction opportunities, not only in the Eagle Ford, but in other areas because we've leveraged our relationship with Howard to do work in the Marcellus as well and in the Bakken. So we've been very pleased with that relationship and that investment, and we expect more opportunities to come out in the future as the Eagle Ford, in particular, becomes more active.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Zach Larkin of Stephens Inc.

Chris Godby - Stephens Inc., Research Division

Analyst

This is Chris Godby in for Zach. With 2 quarters of profitability in gas with that large diameter work, do you have a sense for what the operating margin profile of the segment could be just on shale work alone?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Well, we've said we should be in the mid- to upper single-digit operating income on shale gathering work alone. And we've been moving toward that target over the last several quarters. If we were to bring in some big pipe into that mix, some large diameter pipe, we should be able to move into that 9% to 12% operating income range.

Chris Godby - Stephens Inc., Research Division

Analyst

Okay, great. And then, thinking about electric transmission, have there been any changes in approval timelines given the regulatory environment or elections?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

No, everything has moved according to plan over the last -- since the last quarter, we haven't had any delays to speak of. Nothing meaningful.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Ahmar Zaman of Piper Jaffray.

Ahmar M. Zaman - Piper Jaffray Companies, Research Division

Analyst

A couple of questions just on the impact of Hurricane Sandy. I know you made some comments in your prepared statements. First question is, how much pre-prep were you able to do getting -- going into Hurricane Sandy, and how will that affect kind of minimizing the damage to your activities that were in the past? And then secondly, the repair work that you'll probably get because of Hurricane Sandy, how should we think about the margin profile of that work versus your -- basically the margin mix between repair work and existing projects that were impacted by Hurricane Sandy is what I'm trying to get at.

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

A hurricane is a little bit different than a tornado or an ice storm, we get a little bit of pre-notice, so we did have almost a week to prepare and batten down and secure our equipment in the core services that we provide in the area. So hopefully, we'll be okay there. I mean, we haven't been able to go in and completely assess the situation to date. We were also, at the same time, able to move a significant amount of resources in and pre-position those resources prior to the storm arriving so that we can have an expedient response to the storm damage that occurred. So in both cases, both from our core business and helping respond, too, to repair the damage, we had some ability to move in and do what we could before the storm arrived. As far as the margin profile, I don't even think we need to go there right now. I mean, certainly storm margins do come in at a higher margin, but are these resources coming off existing work we're doing for those utilities we're responding to? Are they coming in from Canada or the West Coast? And then what ultimately is the impact, negative impact, to our core business in the area? So it's just too early to tell what kind of margin impact we're going to have at this time. But certainly, by our fourth quarter call, we'll be able to give more color around that.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Dan Mannes of Avondale.

Daniel J. Mannes - Avondale Partners, LLC, Research Division

Analyst

A couple of follow-up questions. I think most of my questions have been asked and answered, but real quick on the pipeline side. We were pretty pleased to see the backlog pick up sequentially. Can you talk a little bit about maybe the bidding environment on the shale side, and maybe just help me out a little bit with understanding the seasonality of the business because it looks like it's run [ph] a lot less seasonality than maybe we've seen before?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

There is less seasonality even though I don’t want to discount the fourth quarter weather seasonality. There's seasonality in the amount of work that you do, and there's seasonality due to weather. The work's steady right now. The fourth quarter is very active because our customers are still trying to get infrastructure in place and there's no let up. With that said, that means that you're really moving with one customer from project to project to project, so you're really working on a negotiated basis. They don't have time to go out and do an RFP on every project, and they certainly don’t want to deal with the new foreman and workforce every time they bid out a new job. So they're very comfortable with their working relationship with us. We've been working for 6 to 8 of the same customers and just going from project to project to project, and the work is steady and we don’t see any see any let up on that work going forward. If anything, it's increasing.

Daniel J. Mannes - Avondale Partners, LLC, Research Division

Analyst

Sounds good. And then, just one quick other topic that you guys haven't talked much about. But you mentioned on Puget Sound, obviously you've kind of outsourced their gas LDC operations. Are you seeing opportunities either for more deals like that or alternatively, just more opportunities for gas LDC retrofit work, especially given some of the regs coming down from FIMSA [ph] there and certainly what happened in California?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes, certainly, we think there are more opportunities to do outsourcing work and program management on reliability of projects that are being driven by FIMSA [ph] regulations. There are opportunities, that's one of the biggest areas I think that we have, working off a smaller base, of course, but that's one of the biggest areas of growth for us, as the integrity and the pipeline rehabilitation work that is going to occur throughout the country. There's a role to be a program manager in many of those, and certainly some outsourcing opportunities are possible.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Jamie Cook of Credit Suisse.

Andrew Buscaglia

Analyst

This is actually Andrew Buscaglia on behalf of Jamie. Just a quick question. It's regarding your customers' visibility, I know we have -- the elections should be kind of like a lift for that. But I'm just curious what you guys are hearing. I mean, it looks like your guidance says that things are getting better for your customers, and just curious what they're saying on the remainder of the year and 2013, just any update there.

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes, I mean, our customers -- the spending is there. I mean, we've got significant pipeline of opportunities and backlog going into '13. So there doesn't seem to be any pull back from our customers on capital spending in either the electric -- or electric, pipeline or Telecommunications markets right now in our customer base. Things look to be very active going into '13.

Andrew Buscaglia

Analyst

Okay. And then just an update on capital allocation relatively -- specifically, if you can comment on M&A, what your updated views are, if any?

Derrick A. Jensen

Analyst

Sure. I mean, capital allocation, first, is the -- obviously, a working capital to support the business, but you can see this going on here versus the second and third quarter type of cash demands. Second, capital expenditures. And then third, to investments and acquisitions. We did about 10 acquisitions over the last year to 1.5 years now, and we've continue to be active in the -- and opportunistic in that area. As it stands right now, we don't really comment to future acquisitions and the timing of when and how large and whether they will occur. But we've continued to be active and opportunistic.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John Rogers of D.A. Davidson. John Rogers - D.A. Davidson & Co., Research Division: The -- if we could just go back to the DSOs for a second. I know that in the past, seasonally, they've come down the fourth quarter. But it sounds like there were some timing issues this quarter, and then -- can you just talk about how quickly those are going to drop back down or what the collection cycle is on those?

Derrick A. Jensen

Analyst

Sure. Your -- I would agree that, I mean, typically, DSOs do decline in the fourth quarter because of the seasonality as revenues also drop. But particularly in this fourth quarter, I think it's pretty difficult. The storm work that Jim alluded to is an example. We're uncertain as to yet as to the type of volume that may occur from that and the timing of what that would be and how long. And so, that could be a pretty big draw of cash. Secondly, as I made reference to the Sunrise change order as an example, the timing of the collection of that, we're striving to achieve the collection before the end of the year, but as to whether that occurs by 12/31 or into the following quarters, a little bit difficult to say. I would say that we, overall, expect we'll have a strong free cash flow in the near term. It's just difficult to say whether that will occur by the 12/31 timeframe or not. John Rogers - D.A. Davidson & Co., Research Division: Okay. And then just my other question was, I guess for Jim, in terms of the large diameter work, there's a lot of projects on the table. But are they going to bid this season, meaning, I guess late fourth quarter, first quarter or some of the big projects that we're seeing in the press, are they late or end 2012 or 2013, sorry?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I think the bidding season is modified somewhat during this time. I think that you really don't have a bidding season right now. I think it's just -- it's on an ongoing basis. And it really -- you may not have projects go to a formal RFP. It may be just a negotiation process because some of these projects are so big and our customers are concerned about capacity. So I wouldn't be focused so much on a bidding season on big pipe this year. I think it's going to be a different dynamic, not to say that it won't moderate back to a bidding season at some point in time. I do think -- we do think these programs get built, whether it's in the latter part of '13, the mid of '13, the latter part of '13 or into '14, a lot of that's going to do to the regulatory environment and when these projects get approved, these liquid lines [ph] get approved. But it's going to be a very robust market. You can see the capital spending going into the refinery space, and the EMPs really aren't letting up on drilling these wells and building this gathering infrastructure. So the next logical step is to build these pipelines, and we do see visibility and traction online to getting plans [ph] moving toward construction in the -- over the next year or 2.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of David Gusick [ph] of Wedbush Securities.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

You mentioned earlier about an expectation for dark fiber acceleration going forward. Could you talk a bit more about that?

Derrick A. Jensen

Analyst

Sure. I mean, last year, we had capital expenditures in dark fiber, of about $17 million, and this year, we have CapEx in the segment of about $45 million. And so, what we believe will happen as Jim alluded to that the pick up in sales K-12 has been a little bit down because of the economy, and that's picked back up in some of the double-digit sales that you see. And we think that will turn back into revenues in backlog in the future as we end up delivering on those networks.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

And also, it looks like you had substantial Telecom bookings in the quarter. That appears to be accelerating. Can you talk a bit more about that going forward as well?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes. I mean, I think what you're seeing is that we're in the height of the stimulus buildout right now, and we think that our business will continue, the Telecom construction activity will continue at high levels through the better part of 2013. But the significant portion of what you're seeing is stimulus buildout that's occurring due to customers in underserved areas.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Martin Malloy of Johnson Rice. Martin W. Malloy - Johnson Rice & Company, L.L.C., Research Division: On the pipeline side, could you talk a little bit about your market share in terms of spreads of equipment for large diameter pipelines in North America?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Yes. I mean, I think what we've been saying is we've got about 1/3 of industry capacity to do large diameter pipeline across the U.S. So it's about 1/3. Martin W. Malloy - Johnson Rice & Company, L.L.C., Research Division: Okay. And in terms of levels of activity, and -- do you think you can come back to the '06, '08 timeframe?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I think it's possible. I think it depends upon how compressed a construction cycle we have, how many customers are we going to be [indiscernible] are going to be building pipe for at one time, or does it get spread over a 3 to 4-year period. It's going to be a very active market. Can it reach '08 levels? Yes, but that's yet to be determined as to whether that will happen or not.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steven Fisher of UBS.

Steven Fisher - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division

Analyst

Wondering if you can talk about your staffing and presence in the various shales. Are you guys ramped up to where you want to be in the specific shales? And if not, which basins do you think you need to add the most incremental resources to be the most competitive?

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

Well, I think, the Marcellus was the first shale that really was developed and we've been there for 18 months, and certainly, we're doing a lot of work there. But we've got a presence there now, so we're well-positioned to take on additional customers if we're able to do so. The same goes for the Eagle Ford and the Bakken, which are younger shales as far as development, but opportunities will present themselves there as well. And then you start talking about new shales that haven't even really been developed yet, like the Utica, the Niobrara, the Granite Wash, the Mississippi, and it goes on and on. So it's a life cycle, but we will continue to build our presence in the shale and take advantage of those opportunities. And we should see growth over the next several years, building out gathering for some work.

Operator

Operator

And ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference over to management for some closing remarks.

James F. O'Neil

Analyst

I'd like to thank you all for participating in our third quarter 2012 conference call. We appreciate your questions and your ongoing interest in Quanta Services. Thank you. This concludes our call.

Operator

Operator

And thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the conference call for today. This conference will be available for replay later this afternoon until November 7, 2012 at midnight. You may access the replay at area code (303) 590-3030 and enter access code 4572253. Again, this does conclude the conference call for today. We thank you for your participation. And you may now disconnect your line.