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Royal Bank of Canada (RY)

Q3 2015 Earnings Call· Wed, Aug 26, 2015

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the RBC 2015 Third Quarter Results Conference Call. I would now like to turn the meeting over to Ms. Amy Cairncross, VP and Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead Ms. Cairncross.

Amy Cairncross

Management

Good morning and thank you for joining us. Presenting to you this morning are Dave McKay, President and Chief Executive Officer; Janice Fukakusa, Chief Administrative Officer and CFO; and Mark Hughes, Chief Risk Officer. Following their comments, we will open the call for questions from analysts. The call is one hour long and will end at 9:00 a.m. To give everyone a chance to participate, please keep it to one question and then re-queue. We will be posting management’s remarks on our website shortly after the call. Joining us for your questions are George Lewis, Group Head, Wealth Management and Insurance; Doug McGregor, Group Head, Capital Markets and Investor & Treasury Services; Jennifer Tory, Group Head, Personal and Commercial Banking; Zabeen Hirji, Chief Human Resources Officer; and Bruce Ross, Group Head, Technology and Operations. As noted on slide two, our comments may contain forward-looking statements, which involve applying assumptions and have inherent risks and uncertainties. Actual results could differ materially from these statements. I will now turn the call over to Dave McKay.

David McKay

Management

Thanks Amy and good morning everyone. Thank you for joining us today. RBC had a solid quarter with net income of over $2.4 billion, up 4% from last year or 2% excluding the prior year's loss related to the sale of RBC Jamaica. Compared to last quarter, earnings were down 1% but were up 3% excluding the foreign exchange gain in Q2. I would highlight that this morning we announced a $0.02 or 3% increase to our dividend bringing our quarterly dividend to $0.79 a share. We had underlying strength across most of our segments while maintaining a strong credit and capital position. And I believe these results demonstrate the strength of our diversified model and solid execution in an increasingly uncertain environment. Before I provide my perspective on the performance of our business segments, let me share some views on the Canadian economy, oil prices and the housing market. Starting with the economy, in the recent months, we have seen mixed economic data and weaker than anticipated growth which led The Bank of Canada to cut interest rates for a second time this year. Looking ahead, we still forecast modest growth in Canada in the second half of the year as the strengthening US economy and lower Canadian dollar are expected to drive export growth, and consumer spending continues to be steady. Declining oil prices is causing economic uncertainty, particularly in the west with lower levels of investment. As we expected, lower oil prices are challenging for some of our clients. This quarter, we saw an uptick in impairments and Mark will discuss how we are managing our lending portfolios in this environment. Turning to the housing market, it's important to understand that Canada is a country of many regional housing markets, each of which has its own dynamics.…

Janice Fukakusa

Management

Thanks Dave and good morning everyone. As Dave said, it was a solid quarter with earnings of over $2.4 billion up $97 million or 4% from last year. Excluding last year's loss related to the sale of RBC Jamaica, earnings were up $57 million or 2%, compared to last year quarter earnings decreased $27 million or 1%. Excluding last quarter's foreign currency gain, earnings were up $81 million or 3%. Our results reflect record earnings in personal and commercial banking including solid growth in Canadian banking and improved results in the Caribbean as well as continued growth in investor and treasury services. As Dave noted capital markets were down from exceptionally strong levels last year and last quarter and reflect challenging market conditions in the quarter. Turning to capital on slide 7 our common equity Tier 1 ratio of 10.1% increased 10 basis points from last quarter. Strong internal capital generation was partially offset by higher risk weighted assets and the impact of a weakening Canadian dollar, particularly versus the British pound and the euro as we hedge the bulk of our U.S dollar exposure. In addition our capital ratio was positively impacted by a higher discount rate which decreased our pension obligations and increased our pension plan assets. I would note that our common equity Tier 1 ratio has increased 60 basis points from last year as we've continued to build capital in anticipation of closing the announced acquisition of City National in our first fiscal quarter of 2016. Moving to our business segment results starting on slide 8 personal and commercial banking reported record earnings of over $1.2 billion up $143 million or 13% from last year and up $81 million or 7% from last quarter. Canadian banking reported record earnings of over $1.2 billion up $54 million…

Mark Hughes

Management

Thank you Janice and good morning everyone. Turning to Slide 14, our credit quality remains strong this quarter as credit trends stayed near historic lows reflecting our strong risk management, low interest rates and strong employment trends. However given the headwinds Dave has highlighted, our outlook remains cautious. Provisions for credit losses on impaired loans of $270 million or 23 basis points this quarter remain near historical lows and decreased by $12 million or 2 basis points from last quarter. This decrease mainly reflects lower provisions in Wealth Management and in the Caribbean and U.S. Banking which were partially offset by higher provisions in Canadian Banking. Wealth Management's provisions were down $32 million sequentially as the last quarter included a provision on a single account in our International Wealth Management business. We had no new provisions this quarter. In Caribbean and U.S. Banking provisions were down $4 million from last quarter reflecting stable credit trends. In Capital Markets, provisions were flat sequentially at $15 million and largely related to one exploration and production account in Canada. In Canadian Banking we had provisions of $238 million or 26 basis points, up $26 million or 1 basis point from last quarter. I would point out that the increase was mainly due to the reversal in last year of a provision on a single account in our commercial lending portfolio. Turning to slide 15, our Canadian retail portfolio remains stable. Provisions in our credit card portfolio remained low at 243 million, down 19 basis points sequentially, primarily due to seasonality. In our small business portfolio, while we expect variability from quarter-to-quarter, we have seen a decline in provisions over the last few quarters. Provisions in our personal portfolio remain stable from last quarter. Our residential mortgage portfolio continues to perform well with provisions…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions]. The first question is from Steve Theriault at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Steve Theriault

Analyst

I had a question for Janice but maybe just a quick follow up from Mark if I could. You gave us a bunch of numbers there on your oil and gas stress test. So do I have it right that you're telling us the average throughput cycle PCL loss rate 30 to 35 bps and under the stress case that you outlined for us PCL don’t go any higher the net 40 to 50 basis points range? Is that correct?

Mark Hughes

Management

What I said was the 30 to 35 basis points would a more normalized PCL that we would have experienced overtime and the stress test are not seeing us test our risk appetite of 40 to 50 basis points.

Steve Theriault

Analyst

I wanted to just focus on capital for a second for Dave or maybe for Janice. The global [CC] review is coming up in a couple of months wondering to what extent you’ve maybe had discussions with the regulator, as to whether you expect to be maybe regulated with more intensity or subject to higher buffers or whether things like buybacks or acquisitions would be more scrutinize carefully or more scrutinized if in fact you make the list this year.

Janice Fukakusa

Management

So I'll answer that for you to the extent I can. We recognize that given the metrics that we may be classified as G50, of course it all depends on the euro and the performance of the other banks. So we have had discussions specifically with all three about the prospect of being a G50 and we've had discussions about capital and they've indicated to us that they will get back to us towards the end of September or mid-October. The discussions have centered around the fact that we already have a domestic CC buffer and if you look at tearing of G50 we recognized the fact that domestic CC buffer will be replace by G50 but the range as you know is anywhere from a low of 1% up to 2.5%. And currently when you look at our capital levels we're running at 10.1% we have a bit of a prudential minimum we look towards of maybe 9.5% so that's 250 basis points. So those are the discussions we're having and we're assuming that as oft it comes to the conclusion they will let us know slightly prior to when it's announced to the market. When you look at our capital planning and capital attribution and allocation, our critical driver on capital accumulation today is [defend] our City National acquisition. So we think that will take about 70 basis points so we are building capital towards that. With the close in our first fiscal quarter and given our solid capital and earnings generation, we feel that once we close City National, we'll be in more of a business as usual capital allocation and usage time which will mean funding of course as usual all organic growth looking at dividends increasing at the rate of growth of earnings and looking at buybacks or other acquisitions at the margin recognizing of course that we are committed to effectively integrating and getting City National off to an excellent start in terms of its earnings generation. So that's sort of the way we’re looking at capital.

Steve Theriault

Analyst

So just to be clear on if you do get classified clearly it will be in the bottom bucket which is the equivalent to the 1% domestics -- you give some color on that so can I translate that into -- there is at least some risk that the -- if you're in the 1% category that it isn’t additive additional CET1 or not?

Janice Fukakusa

Management

I don’t think that the way the metrics work it will be additive, but I would say that if you look at how we’re running our capital, as I said we are running capital at a 250 to 300 basis points buffer at this point in time over the 7%. We think that’s a prudent level to run our capital at.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Robert Sedran from CIBC. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Robert Sedran

Analyst

Hi, good morning. Just want to better understand the flat year-over-year wealth management earnings and I know there is a restructuring going on, but can -- Janice just to start, can you quantify that U.S. share based comp issue that was called out on the slide?

Janice Fukakusa

Management

Yes, Rob I would say this about the U.S. comp issue too, it is episodic. So it relates to the value of the -- our ROI shares some of it and the fact that while we’ve hedged our stock-based compensation it's an economic hedge and not accounting hedge. So the mark-to-market moves around and then I am going to turn it over to George to make some comments on unusual earnings trajectory.

George Lewis

Analyst

Thanks Janice and thanks Robert for the question. Yes, and we disclosed this in the supplemental, the impact of the U.S. wealth accumulation plan and if I recall on a year-over-year basis the differential is around 14 million, so roughly 5%. I'd say we also had a couple of other minor unusuals, but just on the international wealth restructuring as a follow-on to Janice’s comments, we had some modest amounts this quarter, we are about 75% [relate] through that program. So you will see an item in the fourth quarter as we largely complete that by year-end and that we are very focused then on letting the results of our larger businesses that Dave highlighted flow through to bottom-line to a greater extent.

Robert Sedran

Analyst

So the -- I mean the restructuring costs are going to follow next year, I mean you had revenue growth from what I can tell across all three of your business lines and it was 8% year-over-year. So I mean is this still a business that should be a high single low double-digit earnings contributor or is there something -- are you making investments in the international businesses elsewhere that’s going to slow that growth rate as we look into next year?

George Lewis

Analyst

Thanks very much for that follow-up. We are very focused as we go into 2016 Doug and myself on a more modest revenue growth outlook given market conditions. And so the completion of our international wealth restructuring program is allowing us to accelerate our expense program. So we are bringing that expense profile in line with our revenue growth, so that we are able to deliver positive operating leverage even in a more modest revenue environment. But the underlying flow performance, the client flows in our three large businesses remain positive. And so we feel good about 2016 in terms of momentum of our businesses now that we largely completed our restructuring.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from John Aiken at Barclays. Please proceed. Your line is open.

John Aiken

Analyst

Good morning, Mark, you did an excellent job in your prepared commentary. But unfortunately you're still going to get some questions on credit. In terms of when you're characterizing normalized environment of 30 or 35 basis points, what in terms of the macro environment over the next little while would get you there? And could you I guess frame your answer around the fact that we’ve seen ongoing improvements within the Canadian consumer portfolio over the last 12 months, but actually deterioration on the business side which I guess would even if we’re looking at year ago is probably counterintuitive?

Mark Hughes

Management

Thank you, John. I guess normalized goes to some of the macroeconomic metrics, I mean do we expect interest rates in Canada and United States to stay at the levels that they are? Obviously depending on how some of the current market conditions are there, they may do for a period of time. But I think in a more normalized situation we would be expecting interest rates to move, unemployment is obviously a big factor that would come into play and then GDP growth. So those macroeconomic factors I think need to normalize a little bit from where we are and we would then expect to see that move from the lower -- the mid-20s up to the 30 to 35. Now when those conditions occur, is I guess anyone's guess, but those are the things that I would bear in mind.

John Aiken

Analyst

And then in context the evolution of the Canadian consumer book versus a Canadian commercial book versus the wholesale book?

Mark Hughes

Management

Well we’re certainly seeing on the commercial book, a good business growth as Dave reported in his comments. We did see as I think I reported a couple of gross impaired loans but they were very name specific and situation specific. So we're not really seeing a deterioration in credit trend in that portfolio. On the retail side, across all of the portfolios as I reported we're not seeing deterioration in our impairment rates and in fact in some cases we are actually still seeing some improvements. So I am not really seeing either in retail or commercial significant concerns at this point, it's just -- I overlay of course, the market conditions that we're operating in and so that's why I've tried to express a cautious view.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Gabriel Dechaine from Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Gabriel Dechaine

Analyst

Hi, good morning. My question is for Dave or Janice. Just a follow-up on Steve's questions on the GCIB nomination potential later this year. Let's say things don’t go out of -- turn out as you hope they do, and obviously require another buffer to be layered on and the target goes to 11%, and that's a few billion dollars of incremental capital. I assume you will earn your way there for the most part and have some flexibility in that regard, however, the market always want higher capital ratios to grow faster. Would you look at selling some assets to speed up that progression?

George Lewis

Analyst

Well I can take that. I don’t think we can comment on that. Now that there's lot of options for us, we'll come up with a plan with OSFI to meet that new target if they set it there. We have no idea if they would or not but there's a number of ways we can get there and I think it would be prudent to hypothesize which avenue it would take. But certainly the plan would be to work with OSFI towards the time we would get to that target.

Gabriel Dechaine

Analyst

Okay. Next question, a couple of quick ones here. If you can comment on the current trading commissions and you have seen in August volumes will probably be lower but just what you are seeing? And also, if we get another bank account at the rate cut, what are you doing to prepare for that? I know the first one we saw earlier this year was a bit of a surprise but the most recent one was expected and maybe another one will be expected. What can you do to kind of offset any additional NIM pressures there?

Douglas McGregor

Analyst

I can start with the trading conditions currently. I think starting with fixed income, we are seeing because of the recent market volatility high yield for instance in the U.S. new issue flows is down, investment grade credit is steady but down a little bit, and in rates trading I would say it hasn’t changed. In the equities trading side of the business, it's really just agency trading. We are not really putting capital to work for to offer liquidity. So the equities trading business has actually been as you might imagine reasonably robust especially over the last several days. In terms of preparing for a rate cut?

Janice Fukakusa

Management

Great, thank you Doug. What I would say about preparing for the rate cut is as you've seen when we look at a potential for a bank accounted rate cut, we look at a variety of factors including impacts on our clients and also looking at other rates in the market and what's happening to our funding spreads. So I would say that when we are approaching, we look at the actual conditions in the market before we determine the direct response. And just as with other areas of net interest margin pressure, in our Canadian Banking platform, we are also focused on driving on efficiencies and ensuring that despite the revenue environment we can still drive very solid earnings growth. And I think those builds that programs have been started and are well underway and will continue to focus on the both earnings growth as well as some top-line growth.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Meny Grauman at Cormark Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Meny Grauman

Analyst

Hi, good morning. I wanted to ask a question about the mortgage market. You are putting up good mortgage growth, 6.5%, that looks quite a bit better than the market overall based on the aggregate data that we have and I am just wondering if you think that kind of outperformance is sustainable and what do you attribute it to?

Jennifer Tory

Analyst

So Meny it's Jennifer here. We were very pleased with how our spring and summer markets performed with strong volume, and the seasonality is and the low rate environment has spurred a higher level of market activity for new originations and refinancing as Dave mentioned. We also had a very successful employee pricing campaign. But we will also note that some of the growth is due to client switching out of unsecured lines of credit and some early renewals as clients are taking advantage of the better rates offered on mortgage products. And as far as outlook is concerned, we continue to have a strong pipeline but there is that seasonality to the business that we expect will moderate somewhat in the fall.

Meny Grauman

Analyst

And it doesn’t touch you directly per se but definitely there was a lot of talk this quarter about some issues of active verification in the broker channel. I'm wondering if you have any insight into that and what's your take on that segment of the market?

Jennifer Tory

Analyst

First of all we don’t originate through brokers but income verification is a key component of our adjudication process and our application [growing] taken by branch lenders and our proprietary mortgage salesforce. And for each application we verify income, we have various ways of doing that and our policies require documents to be retained. We have underwriting in our credit adjudication center and application review process that's undertaken in that group particularly for our mortgage specialist salesforce and needs credit professionals to income verification that is confirmation to employment with close employers, document review. And so we have good processes on new clients. We originate many of our mortgages from our existing client base and so we have multiple ways to verify income including news of our internal RBC information and generally we find clients are prepared to provide other forms of documentation which are actually easier for them [such] statements or income tax forms which are readily available. And prior to that we have ongoing fraud monitoring of our application process to help the tax and prevent more [fixed] fraud.

Meny Grauman

Analyst

Just as a follow up do you see those issues as being a risk to the market as a whole or contained? Do you have a view on them?

Jennifer Tory

Analyst

I did the commentary at the time that this was [indiscernible] I can't really comment on the industry overall, but I think just the comments on those involved were that they were contained but from our point of view we feel that we contained that risk for [indiscernible].

Operator

Operator

The next question is from Mario Mendonca at TD Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Mario Mendonca

Analyst

When you offered the 30 to 55 basis points the normalized outlook, what I want to confirm is that, that was just purely information only, you weren't really guiding us there in the near term. Is that a fair statement?

Mark Hughes

Management

Yes that’s correct.

Mario Mendonca

Analyst

And then going to the 40 to 50 basis points for a stress PCLs. I think we can all appreciate that the banks can manage that certainly from a capital perspective. But the more challenging thing to gauge is what that would do not just to PCLs but the overall effect on the bank what will that do to earnings. And the broad question is can the bank grow their earnings year-over-year in an environment where PCLs are approaching the 40 to 45 basis points and all the other things are happening to revenue and expenses as a result of that stress scenario you offered us.

Mark Hughes

Management

Well certainly in all of these stress scenarios you do factor in the PCLs. You factoring the impact on earnings, you factor in the impact upon how RWAs growths et cetera. We do see RBC in those scenarios still producing solid earnings through that period. I think the diversity of our portfolios across industries and geographies still retain a very sound and solid earnings growth potential.

Mario Mendonca

Analyst

So I couldn’t possibly imagine the bank losing money, bank generates $2.4 billion in earnings, there is no way that’s going to go in the quarter. So I appreciate this is going to solidly positive but do you think it grows in that environment?

Mark Hughes

Management

I think that depends on the situation at the time.

Douglas McGregor

Analyst

I would agree, I mean there is one thing you do see in more troubled times is more draw down. So sometimes you see your NII going up in that case. But you do have higher impairments and higher PCLs. So the number of variables that go into that, make it hard to predict whether you go up or down but I think as you look at how Mark's frame the overall risk profile, you should be confident in our core earnings ability through that period.

Operator

Operator

And the next question is from Peter Routledge with National Bank Financial. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Peter Routledge

Analyst

Looking at the page 18 in the presentation, wondered if you could give us a sense of what last given default would be in the oil and gas loan categories.

Mark Hughes

Management

Slide 18 did you say?

Peter Routledge

Analyst

Yes so for E&P or drilling.

Mark Hughes

Management

Well what we do with our portfolios, I think the industry does is we provide withdrawn exposures. And then the way we categorize on drawn exposures is the exposure at default and then we provide you with a fair amount of detail in the supplemental as to how that exposure default is calculated. It is a fairly complicated mathematical equation because it takes into account many different levels of borrower risk ratings as well as historical analysis on loss across those risks ratings that we apply to our exposures.

Peter Routledge

Analyst

I guess the reason I was being more specific is the [indiscernible] LGD just by business loans overall. Can I just impute the LGDs from your broad business portfolio on to your oil and gas portfolio or is there a difference for oil and gas?

Mark Hughes

Management

There is not a different for oil and gas.

Peter Routledge

Analyst

And then you’ve got 13.3 billion roughly in undrawn, what is your exposure default? How much of that gets drawn as borrowers approach default and how much degrees of freedom do you have to cut lines before they can draw?

Mark Hughes

Management

So the way the exposure at default is calculated is in a default scenario that is the potential that we would be expecting could be drawn, each loan of course is specific and different in terms of the characteristics of its drawing capability, some loans have covenants, some do not or that would restrict drawings. I would also acknowledge that in many instances over the past years as a client is experiencing difficulties, they do draw down the loans before they get to the fault. So what I think we’ve come up with as the industry has is with the exposure default numbers are the calculations that are based upon historical data.

Peter Routledge

Analyst

Okay. And did general business exposure default is applicable to oil and gas without any adjustment?

Mark Hughes

Management

Yes.

Peter Routledge

Analyst

Yes, thanks. And Jennifer thanks for your comments on your underwriting procedures in mortgages and you mentioned, you gave us a lot of examples of quality assurance. I guess the question I -- so even if you check documentation, documentation can be misrepresented or altered. How do you -- what sort of checks do you run to ensure that the actual documentation you're getting, the employment letters, other forms of income verification are accurate?

Jennifer Tory

Analyst

Well there are a number of ways you can do that including calls to employers, also as I mentioned a good percentage of our new mortgages originated from existing RBC clients and so often that payroll will be going into their account with RBC. So we feel quite comfortable with the processes that we have in place, plus knowledge that we have of the customer that we can verify that income adequately and of course you got income tax returns which are often what a client will provide to us as evidence of their income levels.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The next question is from Sohrab Movahedi of BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Sohrab Movahedi

Analyst

Okay. Thank you. Couple of quickies, Mark you mentioned you had two formations and you actually took specifics against one of them, that level of specifics that you took on that account, how would it have compared to when you're stressing scenarios?

Mark Hughes

Management

Actually, pretty good actually, so for example that particular client was identified earlier in the year when we were doing our original stress testing and we identified the challenges the client would have and the amount was ended up taking in line with our expectations were through the year.

Sohrab Movahedi

Analyst

Okay and a lot of the commentary you’ve provided suggests that higher loan losses are inevitable, they are not imminent and I wonder if you could just comment what happens to the credit cycle if we stay more or less 2% GDP growth environment in Canada, plus or minus either side of that, will that have the net effect of lengthening the credit cycle?

Mark Hughes

Management

I guess if I had that much of a crystal ball -- I really can’t tell you, I mean possibly.

Sohrab Movahedi

Analyst

So as a Chief Risk Officer would you rather have a 4% growth environment next year or 2% growth environment?

Mark Hughes

Management

That’s a very good question. I guess I would then actually want to understand what the other aspects are wherein interest rates would be to go with that. So if you give me a combined package I could certainly see some higher growth being very positive even for our risk books, but continuing on of the benign credit environment I would be very happy with it as all.

Sohrab Movahedi

Analyst

Okay, so just

Douglas McGregor

Analyst

And in terms of what the source of growth is you could still have 4% growth driven by manufacturing and exports and other struggling commodity energy cycle. So you’ve got to look at it holistically…

Sohrab Movahedi

Analyst

Fair point and just one last one, when you run the stress scenarios, do you then assume interest rates are down to 0%?

Mark Hughes

Management

Actually in some of the scenarios we increase interest rates as well which you could argue the -- whether that’s actually plausible or not, but part of the stress scenarios is actually to try to replicate what could really be a bad situation. So we do have scenarios where interest rates are kept very low while all of the other factors are weakening significantly, but then we also do scenarios where we also add in increased interest rates.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our last question will be from Sumit Malhotra at Scotia Capital. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Sumit Malhotra

Analyst

Thanks, good morning. My questions are likely for Doug McGregor. Doug starting with your corporate loan book, you’ve indicated for some time that we were likely to see the pace of growth start to decelerate from what have been very strong levels, yet they continue to run quite strongly this year. I know there's been some FX noise. But when you look at the underlying trends in corporate lending, do you envision that starting to slow on a core basis as some of the macro headwinds take shape here or do you have growth in other geographies that is making up the difference?

Douglas McGregor

Analyst

Yes, almost all of that growth is in the U.S. and so to your comments about half the growth is FX but we are seeing frankly a pretty robust demand, and I think it's really just a function of the fact that we're expanding our client base. And there is a lot of M&A activity going on in the U.S. and frankly we are not seeing that abating, although we have been in a rough markets for the better part of a couple of weeks here in terms of the real volatility, so we'll see how that plays out. But the demand is quite high. I think really the longer term growth is high single-digits. So yes, it's mostly U.S. and we are seeing pretty good demand.

Sumit Malhotra

Analyst

What about the energy portfolio in particular? Mark mentioned that you are heading into this period of credit redetermination reviews. Again, I know the FX might be skewing things here. But it does look like you've got about a 500 million quarter-over-quarter increase in your energy balances. Has that been -- well let me just ask you, do you anticipate the outright energy portfolio declining as you go through this period of fall review?

Douglas McGregor

Analyst

If there's any significant decline, it will be on the difference between committed and drawn, so that as you go through the redetermination, the availability could drop if we're using a new price deck. So that's where you will see the reduction. And in terms of servicing the industry, we continue to participate in the industry. We are obviously, we have been in this business for a long time. We think that we have good processes in terms of determining company's ability to pay. And I think to Mark's earlier comments, we are usually a senior lender and yes will continue to be in the business.

Mark Hughes

Management

Yes, hi, it's Mark here, I would just echo that. In terms of the increase that we had in the quarter, certainly some of it was foreign exchange related but some of it was actually from new clients that were put on in the wholesale book. As Doug has sort of said, we are not afraid of this industry sector, we have dealt with it for a decade. I think we have a lot of people that are very strong in their understanding of how to deal with this sector. And so the right client opportunities come along, we will take advantage of them.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. This is all the time we had for questions. I would like to turn the meeting back over to Mr. Dave McKay

David McKay

Management

I just want to thank everybody for attending our Q3 call today and your questions and participation. And we look forward to seeing you next quarter in Q4. Have a good day. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The conference has now ended. Please disconnect your lines at this time. And we thank you for your participation.