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Select Medical Holdings Corporation (SEM)

Q3 2018 Earnings Call· Fri, Nov 2, 2018

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning. And thank you for joining us today for Select Medical Holdings Corporation Earnings Conference Call to discuss the third quarter 2018 results and the company’s business outlook. Speaking today are the company’s Executive Chairman and Co-Founder, Robert Ortenzio; and the company’s Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Martin Jackson. Management will give you an overview of the quarter and then open the call for questions. Before we get started, we would like to remind you that the conference call may contain forward-looking statements regarding future events or the future financial performance of the company, including without limitation statements regarding operating results, growth opportunities and other statements that refer to Select Medical’s plans, expectations, strategies and intentions, and beliefs. These forward-looking statements are based on the information available to management of Select Medical today and the company assumes no obligation to update these statements as circumstances change. At this time, I will turn the conference call over to Mr. Robert Ortenzio. Please go ahead.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Thank you, Operator. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us for Select Medical’s third quarter earnings conference call for 2018. Before I outline our operational metrics, I want to provide some summary comments and updates since we spoke last quarter. Once again we were generally pleased with the performance in the quarter with the 17.7% year-over-year growth in revenue, over 35% growth in adjusted EBITDA, including double-digit growth in all four of our business segments. Cash flow from operations was again very strong this quarter generating over $164 million and we repaid an additional $85 million of Select’s revolving debt this quarter and reduce net debt on a consolidated basis for just over $100 million. We’re reduced our credit facility leverage from over 5 times at the end of the first quarter of this year to 4.64 times at the end of this third quarter. We’re confident we will hit our previously stated year end credit facility leverage target of under 4.6 times. U.S. Healthworks integration continues to proceed as planned and our core Concentra business continues to exhibit strong growth in terms of both rate and volume with over 6% revenue growth in the core business alone. We realized nice topline growth in our core outpatient rehab business and continue to see improvement in the Physio markets. In our critical illness recovery hospital division, we had nice growth in adjusted EBITDA and margins driven by improvements in non-Medicare rates, while controlling operating costs. Our rehabilitation hospital business continues to achieve double-digit growth in both revenue and adjusted EBITDA as the maturation of the hospital portfolio continues. As I mentioned last quarter, we’re currently on track to open new joint venture rehabilitation hospital with the University of Florida. The chance expected open in the first quarter of next year. Also…

Martin Jackson

Management

Thanks, Bob. Good morning, everyone. For the third quarter, our operating expenses, which include our cost of services and general administrative expense, were $1.1 billion. This compares to $966 million in same quarter last year. As a percentage of our net revenue operating expense for the third quarter were 88.2%. This compares to 89.7% in the same quarter last year. Cost of services were $1.09 billion for the third quarter. This compares to $939 million in the same quarter last year. As a percentage of net revenue, cost of services were 85.8% for the third quarter. This compares to 87.2% in the same quarter last year. G&A expense was $30 million in the third quarter. This compared to $27.1 million in the same quarter last year. G&A as a percentage of debt revenue was 2.4% in the third quarter. This compares to 2.5% in net revenue for the same quarter last year. As Bob mentioned, total adjusted EBITDA was $156.6 million and the adjusted EBITDA margin was 12.4% for the third quarter. This compares to an adjusted EBITDA of $115.8 million and an adjusted EBITDA margin of 10.8% from the same quarter last year. Depreciation and amortization was $50.5 million from the third quarter. This compares to $38.8 million in the same quarter last year. The increase is primarily the result of the U.S. Healthworks acquisition. We generated $5.4 million in equity and earnings of unconsolidated subsidiaries in the third quarter. This compares to $4.4 million in the same quarter last year. In addition, we recognized the non-operating gain of $2.1 million during the third quarter which relates to the sale of our outpatient rehab clinics to our non-consolidating subsidiary. Interest expense was $50.7 million in the third quarter. This compares to $37.7 million in the same quarter last year.…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Frank Morgan from RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Frank Morgan

Analyst

Good morning. Bob, I’d love to get just a little more color on that sort of the state of the movement with patient criteria. Obviously, you’ve made a lot of progress there and you’ve elaborated. But now that you’ve this opportunity that really get it behind you. Do you see or still see much of an opportunity for upside on occupancies and is there any LTACH pruning left to be done, I know you, I think you may have pruned up one in the last quarter and four over the last year but any color there?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. Thanks, Frank. Yeah. You know generally you know we’re extremely pleased about the way we came through the criteria, as I’ve said previously you know the LTACH criteria is probably the biggest change to the LTACH segment in the last you know 20 years and it’s really changed this industry, which was the reason why we -- you see that we started referring to our hospital more descriptively as critical on this recovery hospitals. I think the answer to your question that we see upside from the 65% or the kind of sense that we’re seeing is, yeah, of course, we do it. It’s really more of an education. It is a narrower group of patients that we can take where virtually all of our patients or ICU patients, or patients that are dependent on mechanical ventilation. So that is a smaller subset of patients. They are highly acute patients, so making sure that our referral sources feel comfortable with us in terms of the safety of the patients and the things that we can do for them. But, yeah, I do think we’ve said that we think that there is upside and it will take time. The occupancy numbers move around a bit. As we pointed out, we did have four hospitals that closed. Unfortunately, we also lost our hospital in Panama City from the most recent hurricane, and we don’t think that that hospital may not be back in service at least for another year. We hope or wish will be sooner. So we continue to see a lot of traction and feel good about it and do feel that there’s upside. As far as additional closures, I don’t think that we’ll see additional closings of our critical illness hospitals as a result of their inability to compete for the high acuity patients, if there’s any closures it will be or what I would call more ordinary course of business.

Frank Morgan

Analyst

Got you. How the good drag with the loss of Panama City be, and how will you account for that?

Martin Jackson

Management

Frank, the drag going into 2019, our expectation is that was about $4.8 million of EBITDA.

Frank Morgan

Analyst

Okay.

Martin Jackson

Management

And that will be reflected in the guidance we provide at the end of December, beginning of January.

Frank Morgan

Analyst

Got you. Switching gears on the reimbursement changes having weathered through the patient criteria. Just curious about some initial thoughts on the new changes that are coming over on the ERF side, specifically over it, I think in 2020 with a new patient assessment tool and all those changes, just any kind of initial thoughts on how that looks and how do you would be prepared for that?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

No. I really don’t have any details for you on that Frank. I mean it is as you said 2020 we will adapt to it. We don’t see that as any kind of -- those as any kind of game changers. Our -- with the model that we have in the operations of our hospitals that I think that we feel we’ll be okay with it.

Frank Morgan

Analyst

Got you. Okay. And the last one, I’ll hop, obviously, appreciate the color on the rollout of the ERFs coming over the next year, when you think about these geographies, where these hospitals are open does it really matter in terms of the process time to get these certified. I know in California it’s like everything takes a little bit longer. But will the certification cycle be a little shorter in some of these other geographies here, area and so that you don’t have these protracted start-up losses in that here.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Unfortunately, we can’t count on it. We can’t count on it being shorter in some regions than others it is, the regulatory environment and as you point out in California it does tend to be a little bit more rigorous and time consuming than other markets. But we saw some delays in getting our Medicare provider number in the Louisiana, when we opened our hospital with Ochsner and some places it’s quicker, some places are a little longer. I wish we could predict it better, but that’s -- I think that’s the nature of opening these hospitals And if the company gets larger, the impact of the delay against our projections or our budgets of when we would receive our provider numbers in order to bill I think it will become less and less overall. So it won’t be as big of impact as you saw particularly when we had the opening of California rehab and some others on a smaller base. As the base gets larger, I don’t think it will be as big of impact.

Frank Morgan

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

You’re welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Peter Costa from Wells Fargo Securities. Your line is open.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Good morning, guys. Thanks. Good job on the quarter. My first question is on the outpatient rehab segment. You had a nice pickup in EBITDA margin there and I kind of forgot, is that all tied to the rebound from Physiotherapy associates or is that some core stuff going on in there. And how much of that do you think is sort of what we should project going into the future…

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah.

Peter Costa

Analyst

… for running this business.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

It is actually a combination of both. We’ve seen improvements on the Physio clinics. But our legacy business continues to improve and drive additional volumes, and therefore, have additional efficiencies because of that. The operators have done -- they did great job this past quarter.

Peter Costa

Analyst

So do you think that that the pickup from the Physiotherapy associates purchase is still going to add to EBITDA going forward in a more accelerated way, so I should consider thinking about that? And where do you think those EBITDA margins will settle out.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

We think the EBITDA margins should be in that 14% range and we do think there is still upside on the Physio acquisition.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Okay.

Martin Jackson

Management

There is still some more room to grow there. Now, I wouldn’t say accelerate I would say they are still upside that will happen over a period of time.

Peter Costa

Analyst

All right. And then on the negative side, you actually see in the LTACH business as a critical illness recovery hospital business that stayed sort of flat year-over-year 65% and do you believe that’s going to move forward in the near-term and why do you think it didn’t move forward over this past year?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. We certainly think to that occupancy we will be in a position to get back to where we are historically. Now third quarter is typically lighter than first quarter and second quarter and actually in the fourth quarter. So, historically, 65% for both periods, we do believe that we’ll see increases as we continue to educate our overall sources.

Peter Costa

Analyst

And then why do you think it didn’t pick up from third quarter of last year?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

I think it’s a combination of a couple of different factors, there is we had four closures, management was spending time on some of these closures and in addition to that we’ve had some changes in management in some of our hospitals. In some hospitals we’ve seen a nice pick-ups and other hospitals, we’ve seen some decreases.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Okay. So it still going through the transition. Did the Panama City hospital effect that the occupancy at all in the quarter?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

It did not.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Okay. I’ll stop there. Thank you.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Thanks, Pete.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from the line of Bill Sutherland from The Benchmark Company. Your line is open.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Thanks. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. The final rule from CMS, I think the impact for your ERP side is going to be around 1.2%, correct me if I am wrong. And also what how is it going to net out for you on the critical illness recovery side?

Martin Jackson

Management

Bill, could you repeat that question, we’re trying to figure out. Are you talking about -- you’re talking about the market basket increase?

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Yeah. And these things are always specific I know the numbers that CMS put out with the update, but the impact to use specifically because there’s always specific issues of how it applies to?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. There was -- it’s a good question. The way that we take a look at it, I’ll walk you through how we take a look at it. CMS announced 2.7% market basket increase. But, as you know, that you also have to back out some of the negative adjustments that are recovering. There is a 75-basis point adjustment, negative adjustment that will occur as a 0.8 negative investment an additional 0.8% negative adjustment and then there’s a 0.947% negative reduction due to the elimination of the 25% threshold policy. And then, finally there is a 0.0287% negative reduction, due to the area of wage level budget neutrality factor. Totaling all those up, we actually have seen a 16 basis point increase for Medicare starting October 1st.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Okay. That’s pretty close to zero. How about the -- I also asked about LTACH.

Martin Jackson

Management

Hey, Bill. The other things you should note is these -- all other things I just said those are outlined in the 10-Q, just so you have that too.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Okay. All right.

Martin Jackson

Management

I know I stated pretty quickly, writing it down there could be tough.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

And the other side, is that in the Q as well, the other hospitals?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. The ERPs, yes.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

ERPs. Yeah. Okay.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Thank you for that. So the outpatient rehab growth was nice, very nice lift. What -- how should we think about these sort of sustainable, as you look at your expansion plans and what’s going on with rates, et cetera, what do you feel is a sustainable level that you guys can target?

Martin Jackson

Management

We think that on the outpatient side, you know, probably, 2% -- 2% to 3% volume growth on visits and what we pencil down for next year is zero, 1% increases on the pricing side.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Okay. And the -- let see what else I have -- and then, finally on the LTAC capacity, I think, you had mentioned you might be expanding or adding a few beds with one of your JVs. Is there anything in the works as far as adding the LTAC capacity?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. We -- I think we did mention that in the last call and if we -- I think we would respond to a question if we saw growth in the LTAC. So I said that we weren’t likely to be in the acquisition mode but that we would consider of opening some new LTACHs. As you probably know, since criteria I mentioned it being such a big change, the number of hospitals is going down very rapidly as is the Medicare spend as the lower acuity LTAC hospitals that weren’t really able to make the conversion to the higher acuity requirements are closing, but we that we do see some opportunities perhaps in some of our joint venture markets. As you know, our rehab joint ventures are with some extremely large systems. We do have LTAC or our critical owners’ recovery hospital partnerships with the Cleveland Clinic and some other markets. So we do have some of those in the pipeline and would consider a joint venture, and perhaps, those with some of our partners.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Okay. Nothing specific at the moment. Last one from me. You mentioned, on Concentra, the revenue, the net revenue per visit improving on both sides. There was better workers’ comp at Concentra. What led a little bit of an increase at U.S. Health? I didn’t catch that.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. The rate increase, some of that had to do with the integration of U.S. Healthworks. A significant number of centers that U.S. Healthworks cater in California and their rates are typically higher than the rest of the country.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

So we’re talking about mix issue then?

Martin Jackson

Management

Well, we’re talking about it wouldn’t necessarily be a mix, it -- if, well, if you want to put it in terms of geographical mix, yes.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

I mean in terms of how USH coming in has improved -- is -- as to the it’s a mix -- positive mix impact on your …

Martin Jackson

Management

On the rates.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Yeah.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Okay. I got it.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah.

Bill Sutherland

Analyst

Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

Martin Jackson

Management

Okay.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Kevin Fischbeck from Bank of America. Your line is open.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Great. Thanks. I wanted to ask about the seasonality of the business, it looks like your guidance implies that Q4 is going to be below Q3, and usually we’d expect at least the hospital business to be up from Q3 into Q4. Can you talk a little bit about what’s going on with Q4 this year and that’s the way to think about things going forward relative to this mix changes?

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. Kevin, good question. As you know we provide annual guidance and so consequently and we understand you guys you know do it on a yearly basis, which is exactly what you should be doing. There’s -- in particular on critical wellness recovery hospitals, there is fluctuations in those rates as you saw in the second quarter. We’re comfortable with the guidance that we provided out there and we -- to a certain extent quite candidly when we take a look at the fourth quarter that some of the analysts have provided, I think they historically I think they have done that right, but the third quarter was good for us but at the end of the day here we’re very comfortable with the guidance that we provide.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Okay. So it is -- I guess, maybe then thinking about how to think about 2019, 2020 going forward as we do this, I mean just maybe help us through or remind us what quarter you think are going to be strongest from a companywide perspective, I wasn’t sure Q4 being higher or being lower than Q3 in terms of recently few remodeling going forward as well or there just Q3 being maybe little bit better?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. I think Q3 was little bit better. So I think that’s the best place to leave it right now.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

All right.

Martin Jackson

Management

With regards to what’s the best quarter for us, the best quarter for us has always been Q1.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Okay. Great. And then I guess Concentra’s revenue declined sequentially by about 2%. Does that -- is there seasonality in that business? Last year it was kind of more flattish despite the hurricane. So I wasn’t sure how to think about that.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. Normally for Concentra what you have is typically in that business, first quarter is, first and fourth quarters are typically down. That’s what we’ve had historically although the past two years, first quarter has been up a lot higher than we’ve normally seen in the industry, but fourth quarter is always down. Second quarter and third quarter are always typically pretty close to one another.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Okay. So down two is not that far off of flat. Okay. And then going to the ERP side, obviously 16% volume growth it’s a huge number, but the margins were flat with that and why don’t you able to get a more leverage I would have thought to that that kind of patient day growth there might bring more leverage on the margin?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. I think that is again good question. We have start-ups. So we have the Ochsner startup, we called, Ochsner, it was probably a little bit, just about $800,000 of losses in the quarter because that startup. And then we have, we have some hospitals that only go around for a year, year and a half and what we’ve said is some of the --it takes typically two to three years for those hospitals to mature. So I think Bob mentioned Kevin that as we continue to open up new hospitals, the base gets larger, and these types of openings will become a smaller and small percentage of the total ERP business.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Yeah. I thought the startup losses were higher last year than they were this year? That was like a bit little over $1 million last year? I could be wrong on about that, but you’re just saying recently open hospitals a little bit and even as far as the margin performance, but nothing…

Martin Jackson

Management

Yes.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

… worried about at this point.

Martin Jackson

Management

We’re not.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Okay. And the last question you guys have done a good job knocking down the rates on these refinancing, but obviously interest rates are rising is there any thought about terming out the loans at these points or how do you think about that?

Martin Jackson

Management

When you say terming out the loans, do you mean fixing?

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Yeah. Exactly, putting, putting bonds into term out some of the floating rate debt.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. We’re, we’re always

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Yeah, exactly, putting bonds into term out some of the floating rate debt?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. We were -- we’re always evaluating whether that make sense or not. We’ve gone from -- we’re constantly paying attention to, which going on there. We’ve gone from a three month LIBOR to a one month LIBOR and yeah we’ll continue to keep with the one month LIBOR. From our perspective, taking a look at you know all the banks e-commerce and what they anticipate, we’re going to see, probably going to be 3% over the next couple of years. So if it makes sense to fix, we will do that and I think that the vehicle, we would probably use to do that will be a cap, but is got to be from our perspective -- we’ve got to buy something which is economically opportunistic for us. At this point in time we’ve been over the past couple of years, we’ve been in that 5% to 6% range on our floating. We continue to be there and even if LIBOR gets 3%, we will still be in that 5% to 6% range.

Kevin Fischbeck

Analyst

Okay. Makes sense. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of A.J. Rice from Credit Suisse. Your line is open.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Thanks. Hi, everyone. Just a couple of questions, Concentra up 6%, ex-U.S. Healthworks this quarter, it looks like it’s now been a handful of quarters where it’s been growing in that mid-single digits sort of organically. I know at one point early days, the discussion was well long-term that sort of run rate for Concentra’s about 3%. Do you think the normalized run rate is somehow now higher and what sort of evolved that would -- has driven that higher rate of growth.

Martin Jackson

Management

A.J., first of all it’s good to have you back.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Yeah. Yeah. I’ll be back. I will be back.

Martin Jackson

Management

Good. Good. With regards to growth listen the operators are concerned they have just done an absolutely fabulous job with that growth. I believe and then I think both and Bob and I believe that over the next year to year and a half that’s probably going to moderate a little bit as we integrate U.S. Healthworks…

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Okay.

Martin Jackson

Management

… as far as the legacy business is concerned, but then subsequent to full for successful integration I think we could potentially return to those types of levels.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Okay. All right. And then just a follow-up to that in U.S. Healthworks, I think, the stated synergy target is $38 million. Can you update us on whether that’s moved around at all, what is the timing expectation, when you’re going to realize that any update on that and generally just how U.S. Healthworks is works doing?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. U.S. Healthworks integration is going very well. The $38 million is a very good number. We’re very comfortable with that. There may be some upside to that. As far as timing on that we anticipate the majority of that will be realized in 2019 and certainly $38 million on annual basis will be obtained in 2020.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Okay. And then my last question was, obviously, a lot of the businesses have shown nice margin improvement. Your biggest cost item is labor across those segments. What are you seeing in the major segments in terms of cost trends with respect to labor, any metrics that you can reference to turnover, productivity and it’s a mature tracking, just general wage increases maybe that you are seeing?

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. What we are seeing A.J. is the labor price is really on the clinical side, the nursing side, and what we’re seeing is wage increases annually of about 3%.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Okay. That’s pretty consistent with what you saw last year.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yes.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Okay. And when you think about therapies on the similar dynamic, not a lot of wage pressure there I am assuming?

Martin Jackson

Management

Well, it depends on the geographic location that you are talking about is with the therapist, there is always different pockets where you’ve got some increases, but nothing that we haven’t seen over the past five years to six years.

A.J. Rice

Analyst

Okay. All right. Thanks a lot.

Martin Jackson

Management

Thank you, A.J.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Peter Costa from Wells Fargo Securities. Your line is open.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Thanks for letting me back in the queue here. It’s one of the follow-up on the last quarter’s issues with the threshold days. We saw the revenue per patient day continue to drift a little bit lower here, while it’s up year-over-year, it’s lower sequentially and then length of stay is up a little bit. Can you tell us did you have like the -- the threshold day problem again this quarter or did that marginally go away or did you manage through it with the kind of labor cost, can you talk about that a little bit?

Martin Jackson

Management

Sure, Peter. Yeah. Threshold days were, they bounced back this quarter, so we were in good shape with regards to threshold days. You had talked about the length of stay. On a same quarter year-over-year basis, the -- it’s actually down.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Down year-over-year of it, up sequentially.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yes. Yeah. It’s about the same sequentially.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Looks like there are 20 bps -- 10 bps.

Martin Jackson

Management

Okay.

Peter Costa

Analyst

So I am just, how did you get the improvement or are we just having it easier comp with the third quarter of last year, so threshold days are down. I guess it helps, but your revenue per patient is still a bit down from where it was in Q2?

Martin Jackson

Management

I just tell you. I think the rate per patient day in second quarter I’ll have to go back take a look at ‘17, you’re talking about ‘17, $35.

Peter Costa

Analyst

‘17.

Martin Jackson

Management

We are talking about supply.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Its’ a small amount, but I am just trying to figure out just want to…

Martin Jackson

Management

You are looking -- nothing.

Peter Costa

Analyst

I understand. But it was such a topic last quarter. I am just trying to make sure that we have resolved in this quarter.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah. Like again I mean, the point that we made last quarter is -- there is fluctuations in those rates and they will continue to be fluctuation so it’s not a problem, it’s that part of the Medicare reimbursement system, it’s based on averages.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. When we had the threshold day issue, I think, that when we talked about it last quarter, we didn’t say there was a problem. We just said it was what it was and that nothing is sort of a remedial action. Those are critical patients that are they said -- we said I think what we said at that time it would tend to average out, over the year and we had a quarter with a higher threshold days were there. I don’t want to give anybody the impression that we had to take remedial action of this threshold day because they are what they are and they will be down and they will be up across the course of a full year. So we actually can’t manage that.

Martin Jackson

Management

As we said last quarter, it’s really based on the physician’s determination as to when you are going to discharge the patient.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Perfect. Solved or not solved because this is normal. Thank you very much.

Martin Jackson

Management

Yeah.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Exactly. Exactly. And that’s a good clarification because I do think that when we started calling it out, I mean, people, the first half they heard about threshold days are now I think it’s natural for people wanted to track one more indicator but it’s not a good indicator to track, I mean it shows up in the rate, right, and so that’s just the way it’s going to be.

Peter Costa

Analyst

Sounds good. Thank you, guys.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. Thank you.

Martin Jackson

Management

Thanks, Steve.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Gilmore from Baird. Your line is open.

Matthew Gilmore

Analyst

Hey. Thanks. I had another reimbursement question, now those are -- those are most popular. For the 2020 changes with the, on the growth side moving from the FEM to the care tool measure, you’ve got one of your peers, I think most people think that’ll create a little bit of a pressure in terms of their rates in 2020. But just curious in terms of how you are thinking about that change and what impact it might have.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. I mean I just think the way we’ve looked at it, we just don’t see it as being a big game changer for us so I…

Martin Jackson

Management

And Matt, as we get close to the 2020 and we see some more specifics we’ll be able to comment little bit borrowing, usually what we, what we don’t do is we don’t comment on proposed rigs.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

Yeah. But I think the comment we have made is we’re, we’re not alarmed by it, I mean, yeah, look, any time we go through these changes. So the rehab industry has been stable for so many years and maybe we just have -- we live in with post-traumatic stress, because we’re always going to LTAC changes all the time that one in the grand scheme of our last 10 years it doesn’t it will be an adjustment. But it’s not we don’t see it as, it’s not going to be like LTAC criteria. So hope that it will, will sort of throw it.

Matthew Gilmore

Analyst

Got it. Fair enough. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

We have no further question at this time. I will now turn the call back to management for closing remarks.

Robert Ortenzio

Management

No. That’s all. Thanks everybody for joining us and we’ll look forward to updating you next quarter or when our guidance come out, comes out for ‘19 at the end of the fourth quarter the beginning of next year.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today’s conference. Thank you for participation. You have a wonderful day. You may disconnect.