Earnings Labs

Superior Group of Companies, Inc. (SGC)

Q4 2014 Earnings Call· Thu, Feb 26, 2015

$11.46

+0.39%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

+0.00%

1 Week

+0.27%

1 Month

+3.22%

vs S&P

+4.70%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Superior Uniform Group’s 2014 Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year Earnings Conference Call. With us today are Michael Benstock, the Company’s Chief Executive Officer and Andy Demott, Chief Financial Officer. After the speakers’ opening remarks, there will be a question-and-answer period. Instructions on how to ask a question will be given at that time. This call is being recorded and your participation implies the consent to this. If you do not agree, then simply drop off the line. Now, I would now like to turn the call over to Hala Elsherbini, Senior Vice President of Halliburton Investor Relations who will read the Safe Harbor statement. Please go ahead.

Hala Elsherbini

Management

Thank you, Keith. This conference call will contain forward-looking statements about Superior Uniform Group’s business opportunities and its anticipated results of operations. Please bear in mind that forward-looking information is subject to risks and uncertainties and actual results may differ from what you hear today. Many of these risks and uncertainties are described in Superior Uniform Group’s Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year just ended in the news release that was published this morning and the Company’s other filings with the SEC. Forward-looking statements in this conference call are based on our current expectations and beliefs. Management does not undertake any duty to update the forward-looking statements made during this conference call or elsewhere. Please note that all growth comparisons that management makes today will relate to the corresponding period of last year unless otherwise noted. With that, I’ll turn the call over to Michael.

Michael Benstock

Management

Thank you Hala and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us to review our performance for the fourth quarter and our fiscal year 2014. We will follow our usual format. I’ll start with some financial highlights for the quarter. Then I’ll give an update on the progress we made in executing our growth strategies in both of our operating segments, followed by some comments on general industry trends. Next Andy will give you some color on our financial results for the last quarter and full year. Finally, I’ll come back with the general outlook. Then we’ll both be happy to answer your questions. Let’s begin with the quarterly highlights. The final three months of 2014 represented a solid finish to a year in which we posted two record quarters as measured by revenues and earnings. This is noteworthy since the fourth quarter is seasonally low in our industry because a good percentage of our customers are more focused on generating holiday related sales than buying Uniforms. Generally, we will see lower sequential result in the fourth quarter than in our second and third quarters, which represent the peak in our annual cycle. Both our Uniforms related products and our Remote Staffing Solution Segments posted strong performances. As a result, revenues rose by 9.2% to $49.7 million compared with $45.5 million for the 2013 fourth quarter. Here is a closer look at the two segments. Our uniform related products business, which includes Fashion Seal Healthcare, HPI Direct, and Superior ID saw 8.3% higher revenues for the 2014 fourth quarter. We more than offset some challenges in the current market environment, including Port disruptions on the West Coast and work stoppages in Haiti. This reflects the strength of our global sourcing team as well as our long-term redundant manufacturing strategies, meaning…

Andy Demott

Management

Thank you, Michael, and good afternoon everyone. I’ll provide some depth on the key numbers we believe are particularly significant, first for the fourth quarter and then for the year. Just a quick reminder, for more detail please see our press release on the Investor Relations section of our website or review our 10-K, which was filed this morning. Let’s begin with the fourth quarter income statement. We had a strong end to the year. Net sales increased 9.3% from 2013 quarter to $49.7 million. As you know both quarters include results from HPI, so this top line improvement came completely from organic growth. The uniforms and related products business contributed 8% of the overall sales increase with Remote Staffing Solutions adding the remaining 1.3%. Uniforms and related product sales were up 8.3% over last year’s fourth quarter. HPI delivered another outstanding quarter with 26.1% higher net sales. This reflects a success of the market penetration strategies that Michael outlined for you earlier. Remote Staffing Solutions saw quarterly sales outside customers rise 34.5% from a year ago as it continue to sign significant new accounts. Gross margin increase as a percentage of sales to 34.7% or $17.2 million, for 2013 quarter this was 33% or $15 million. Just a quick note on gross margins, this will fluctuate from quarter-to-quarter largely because some of our uniform contracts have higher service components than others. For this region we believe looking at SG&A and operating margins will give you a better measure of our overall progress. Income from operations climbed 81.3% to $4.6 million. That lead to a significant increase in our operating margin to 9.3%, compared with 5.6% for last year’s fourth quarter. Net income for the quarter jumped 70.5% to $2.9 million. On a diluted per share basis earnings rose 53.8%…

Michael Benstock

Management

Thanks, Andy. We’re very proud of our fourth quarter and 2014 results. As we’ve said all long, the kind of increases we saw last year from our uniform’s and related products group are unlikely to be repeatable at those same epic levels. While we don’t provide specific guidance, I want to give you a sense though of what we expect for organic growth from our businesses over the next three years to five years. Our current outlook is that our uniform segment will continue to expand and should exceed our organic growth rate of approximately 6% per year, which was our historical growth rate for the last several years prior to the HPI acquisition. Future acquisitions could improve this outlook and as we have repeatedly stated, we’re aggressively pursuing candidates to acquire as well as keeping the lines of communication open to potential candidates not yet ready to sell their businesses. Our Remote Staffing Solutions vertical should continue to post accelerated growth at the same dollar levels you have seen in the past few years, which is roughly at an annual growth rate of $2.5 million to $3 million. On a consolidated basis over the next three years to five years, we expect average organic growth in excess of 8% per year. Of course, certain situations could change this outlook such as unanticipated customer demands, new product lines, changes in the economy and global calamities events as well as other situations that might impact employment levels and turnover rates. With that let’s open the call for Q&A.

Operator

Operator

Yes. Thank you. [Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from Jim Gentrup with Vista Capital Management.

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

Good afternoon, gentlemen. How are you?

Michael Benstock

Management

Great. Thanks. How are you?

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

I’m doing well. Just wanted to kind of start off with the - just taking look at your pipeline little bit more and as you grow this year and into next year, where you see the kind of short-term and long-term opportunities, is it more in the healthcare with the IDN idea or development or non-healthcare. Can you just talk a little bit about that?

Michael Benstock

Management

I would say it’s fairly equal between the two, Jim. I mean there are so many segments other than healthcare that we are dealing, particularly on the non-healthcare side. Our pipeline has opportunities in all the segments. They are all kind of in a state of what we would consider to be positive flux. Retails are doing a lot of rebranding, refreshing, opening of new stores, food service in particular is very, very active in trying to establish new uniform program. During the recession, a lot of things were put on hold and now just trying to retain employees. They realize it’s going to be more and more difficult. From what we’re hearing, it’s already becoming difficult even at the levels of unemployment currently. So, we expect to see a pretty good push on either side. Healthcare is a little bit longer sale. It involves a lot more thought around how to take a large healthcare system and all the different locations they have and how to tie them into a uniform programs both from a design and a conceptual standpoint and then bring in so many different partners within healthcare system to try to sell them often takes a longer time. But I think we are going to see a nice upward lift from both. I can’t really predict what percentage will come what - we pretty well laid out where we think The Office Gurus, our Remote Staffing Segment will be, but in my earlier comments - but I don’t know, really I wish I could predict that. I’d be a much better executive of that.

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

And then along the same lines, would you categorize this incremental revenue that you are going after, would it be more coming from completely new customers or is it just the expansion of the adjusting programs.

MichaelBenstock

Analyst

We’re certainly seeing expansion of existing programs, but we’re actively engaged with bringing new people to the table. Our pipelines are robust, I’m quite satisfied with what’s in our pipeline and what the different stages there and where we can take them. Of course, with existing customers turnover of employees is a big factor. So the U.S. Department of Labor figures that I quoted you know any kind of uptick and turn over generally means more uniforms being bought in particular in places where employers supply uniforms to their employees. So we are very excited about both of those. It’s going to come from both.

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

Is the promotional product category, is that large enough - I’m assuming that you can’t break it, you are not breaking it out here. So it must not be 10% of revenue for the full year, is that a safe assumption?

Michael Benstock

Management

I will let Andy will respond.

Andy Demott

Management

Yeah, that is a safe assumption. Yeah.

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

Okay, so do you expect - with that category be growing more or less than the overall, those 8% - whatever 10% that your long-term rate, would that product be that category where we are going faster.

Andy Demott

Management

At this point Tim, we are not going to comment on what products growing faster than other products. We’ve never really given that information out within our uniform and related products. And right now we consider that to be a related product. So, we really not going to give that out and when it becomes large enough and if we get to [indiscernible] where we do segmented out will certainly be we proud to do that. It is growing quite nicely there.

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

Okay, and one more question if I may. You hit the 9.3% operating margins this quarter, right there knocking at 10%, this is - do you see continued leverage as you grow in the next year or is there - should we expect a big increase in sales people that will - can you just talk a little bit about your leverage and what’s your kind of internal goals already getting the operating margins even higher.

Andy Demott

Management

I think you are going to see, as we continue to grow we will get some leverage out of our operating expenses, but we are also making some significant investments in both in the healthcare side as far as trying to ramp up with the sales to GPOs in that area. So, I mean it’s going to kind of balance out on at this point. I think probably looking through this next year I don’t think I’d expect to see a lot more leverage on it beyond offsetting the investments that we’ve got to make.

Jim Gentrup

Analyst

Okay. [indiscernible] Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you.

Andy Demott

Management

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And the next question comes from Brandon Osten from Venator.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Hey guys. Congratulations at the hell of a year you guys put out there. Just wanted to talk a bit about HPI, are you guys going to continue to break out the HPI numbers going forward or are we just - is this business, I realize geographically a little different but are we integrating and just having uniforms in call center or is this is separately reportable business segment for the foreseeable future?

Michael Benstock

Management

No we’ve broke it out this year, simply because of the fact that it was not comparable in both years. It is the core part of our uniforms and related products segment. So after this quarter, I wouldn’t expect the see any separate mention of it as far as results.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Okay. So, we’re going to go from 8% growth in core and 29% growth in HPI to whatever mid-teens growth in uniforms and then whatever growth in call centers is that the plan, is what I should expect going forward in terms of just reporting?

Michael Benstock

Management

In terms of reporting, you’re correct. In terms of the numbers you just used, I think you have go back to my early statement where I, I said we expect to exceed our 8% organic historical growth rates and we expect to be somewhere on the call center side between additional revenue over the next three years to five years of $2.5 million to $3 million per year increase.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Okay, an HPI, I mean, since this is the last quarter. We are really going to see it on its own. They’re still throwing out really good growth over there, is there any key success factor that you guys can point to that had allowed this situation to persist as the year went on?

Michael Benstock

Management

Yeah, I think, one of issues is, we were - and have explained this in a couple of the conferences we’ve done, which have been recorded, but [indiscernible] benefit on this call, you know HPI was one of our largest competitors in the non-healthcare marketplace. We often found ourselves standing side by side with them in the RFP process as last two men standing and [indiscernible] purposes they’re driving the sales now and they’ve taken in the way - they’ve taken out their biggest competitor, was us. So, they’ve got great salesmanship, they’ve got great designs and they’re an incredibly innovative organization. And customers like to work with them and customers are impressed by all that they can do for them. So with our backing and sourcing that we provide in the scale that we’ve created by doing this acquisition has clearly given us a little bit of leverage on - more leverage on the sourcing side, has made them more able to compete. And less concerned with who their competition is, because none of their competition measured up to us as competitors in our opinion out in the marketplace. So they’ll continue to be innovative, they’ll continue to be who they are, we will continue to give them the economies of scale, but I know they are probably listening to this call or will be listening to this call, person per person they are a great organization.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Okay. That’s kind of interesting, if I can just follow-up on that because I mean, did you like exceed what would have been previously competitive, you know situations to their division, I mean, had you guys, if you guys hadn’t merged effectively, would their growth rate potentially has been lowering and your growth rate would have potentially been higher because you would have split deals in some proportion.

Andy Demott

Management

That’s a good view of the world and I personally believe I have no way of knowing for certain, but I personally believe that that would have been true.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Okay. Your SG&A expenses came down a lot sequentially, is there any – I wasn’t entirely clear on the reasons behind that?

Michael Benstock

Management

The primary reason for that was the significant growth and the leverage we got of our fixed cost.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Okay. And…

Michael Benstock

Management

Let me point out one other item that was in SG&A last year. I mean, we did have just under $1 million worth of acquisition professional fees associated with the close when we acquired HPI, so that came out.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

So I was referring in relation to the September quarter.

Michael Benstock

Management

Okay.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

You don’t normally see expenses come down that much quarter-to-quarter from that Q3 to Q4 typically.

Michael Benstock

Management

Well, quarter three includes option grants.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

And just have few more to kick off of my list here. Last year, you guys had a slight sequential Q3 to Q4 increase in revenues. And this year it was down a little bit. I realized you guys had a monster Q2 and a monster Q3, but can you sort of dive into the normal expected seasonality a little bit with me here?

Andy Demott

Management

Typically our second and third quarters are strongest quarters. Fourth and first are weakest and by now it’s weak but weaker and that’s historical. If you go back ten years and that has been true in most cases. Last year, we had strong backlogs going into fourth quarter as we did four or five years ago as well if I recall correctly. It’s a little bit unusual, but it does happen. So but that is sequentially how things usually happen, first and fourth are weakest, things start to really ramp up in the middle of March or so, and carry us through to the fall.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Okay, and last thing I’d promise. The acquisitions, you guys have been talking for six months or obviously the last one was a home run. I’m not sure if you had the word aggressively pursuing in the last press release, I haven’t checked. But can you comment as to whether or not targets have been identified and is it an issue I guess the question, is it an issue of fit or is it an issue of price that that you haven’t made an acquisition last ten months – last nine months when you made it fairly clear that you guys are looking?

Michael Benstock

Management

It’s a factor of all those things. It’s a factor of, I mean, yes, we have targets. We have our targeted lists and we view them regularly and we visit and communicate regularly with our targets. And we are no less aggressive now than we were a year ago or two years ago when we acquired HPI. It is a question of fit, it is a question of exit could be many different – it’s got to be product culturally, do they management in place that can run their business and grow their business and perhaps behave as HPI has behaved or there more some company that we got to roll into our company and take over managing. So there is a lot of thought that goes into that but there is no shortage of targets and that’s about all we can say about it at this point. When we say aggressively pursuing, we mean aggressively. We could not be any more aggressive than we are right now.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

And that being, is there a wide variety of potential sizes that you are looking at – are we looking at anything from $5 million in annual revenues to $40 million in annual revenues or is there a specific size that internet you more than another one?

Michael Benstock

Management

You have to remember how many markets we serve. So there could be a smaller company, maybe a little larger than what you mentioned, but there could be smaller company in a particular market that would give us a total into a segment of the uniform market that we don’t currently serve well or don’t serve at all. As opposed to a larger acquisition that we may see in the typical and in our organic space that we would want to go after, so that’s pretty good range, lot of expense on circumstances and what kind of leadership and what kind of infrastructure they have, and how easy or difficult it would be to integrate it. We certainly have the firepower and the horsepower to do any of the sizes from the 5% to 40% that you mentioned or anything in between. But it’s got to be right fit; it’s got to be at the right price, and it’s got to be with the right group of people.

Brandon Osten

Analyst

Thanks guys. Great year.

Michael Benstock

Management

Thank you very much.

Andy Demott

Management

Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And we have a follow-up question from [indiscernible].

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Hey, guys, I just wanted to quickly ask you about – have you guys seen much of a weather impact like you did last year at this time for Q1?

Michael Benstock

Management

We’re all seeing the weather impact. Yes, the impact fortunately, what happens in the middle of the quarter is less impact for us. It just means that things happened a little bit later. You hope to not have these strong weather conditions at the end of the quarter; the few days of the quarter to really impact you. So the impact will be minimal but for sure. From all standpoints, transportation, two hours of inbound product, [indiscernible] products trying to get customers, our employees trying to get to warehouses to shift and there have been shut downs. But we stay on top of what we do when we were really a quick service organization, so often times it’s a question of it’s a little bit over time when we get through these times and cranking of backup and things get back to normal very quickly.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

And also I have a question about the commodity prices, the comments you made about commodity prices. And I guess I just wanted you to kind of reconfirm what you see. It’s something about six months to eight months for those favorable drops declines to reach you, but then you say something about softening impact. Could you just elaborate on that a little bit more?

Michael Benstock

Management

Sure. We buy products all over the world. Some of our lead times are as long as eight months from the time we make a commitment to buy fabric and that fabric then begins at the spinning mill to make its way to a weaver, eventually gets died and so on. The controlling of those prices is often done at different stages of that, and commitments are made between those people with respect to how much inventory they normally carry for them on any kind of basis. So, the impact is not immediate. If you see commodity prices go up, it doesn’t mean that, cotton and polyester go up. Tomorrow my prices of fabric go up. Usually we’re bought out for at least in the next nine months and in some cases even longer. So my prices may not change for nine months to 12 months and further up or down. We hedge a little bit that helped us greatly during the cotton prices by going long-term as opposed to only looking at short term horizons. We do expect, there’s a lot of pressure from a large standpoint from our customer base saying hey cotton and polyester have come down, what do you guys doing for us? And there’s almost an expectation in some cases that their prices have to come down. Now, so we’re fighting that, that’s about as always been out there and we’ve always dealt with that and we’ve always dealt with that quite well. And so we’re doing so now. And but the reality is, there may be some give and take over the next few months. But our pricing will all be in line as the year goes on, our inventory is replenished with lower price merchandise, our margins should come back and it’s essentially what we’re seeing.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

So, I mean, if you have opportunity on the gross margin side to improve that, that would be probably more likely because of just better coverage of fixed costs?

Michael Benstock

Management

I’m sorry, could you restate that again?

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

If you do have opportunity on the gross margin side which I’m not sure that you do, I’m not saying that you are sub stating that but if you did increase or had an opportunity there would be more likely in the short-term because of just better coverage of fixed cost?

Andy Demott

Management

Yeah, there is also the issue that we’re not laying down still and we’re expanding in lower cost countries right now. We’re moving products around. We’ve got a strong sourcing effort and we continue to actually to grow the staff with talented people who know the world even better than we know at this point. And as we continue to do that we will find lower cost sources, we will - it takes time grow those and build those and have make them impactful to your business. But we’re not taking this laying down, I mean this is something we’re constantly slugging out and we’ll continue to do so.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay, and then one last one. Did you guys give a backlog number for 12/31 or could you?

Andy Demott

Management

We didn’t give one for 12/31, there is one in the 10-K or the recent number which was basically I think it was up slightly from where the number was last year.

Michael Benstock

Management

We’re kind of a quick ship organization. You have to be very careful. Some of the best times of this company has been when we got the lowest backlog. And a lot it depends on while customers are giving us some future orders and so on. That’s kind of a mix bag to look at. 20 years ago, backlog totally drove this company. You looked at our backlog, you know what we are going to do three months, six months down the road. Today, you backlog tells us nothing about what we’re going to do.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. That’s it. Go ahead.

Michael Benstock

Management

I’m sorry, go-ahead, this is fine.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

No, you said it was up slightly, I didn’t know [indiscernible].

Andy Demott

Management

Yeah, was going to tell you. The $7.2 million compared to $6.9 million at the same date last year. That was as of February 23.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

All right. Thank you very much, guys.

Andy Demott

Management

Thank you, Jim.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from Bob [indiscernible] from Meridian. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[indiscernible].

Operator

Operator

Your line is live, if you are in mute.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Guys, I’m sorry about that [indiscernible]. Can you hear me?

Andy Demott

Management

Okay.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

I just – I wanted to ask a – kind of a rephrase able to what the previous two callers asked about, sequential revenues so and so forth. Michael, to what extent the business sort of lumpy and driven by large wins. Because I know you had a couple of marky wins in the previous two quarters. And I just wonder if that sort of – made those two orders, those blockbuster orders look a little bit better, a short-term and they really were. Not that I wanted you to quantify it or anything but is that an impact as well?

Michael Benstock

Management

Yeah. Just to clarify the two large orders that we actually discussed in the call today and early in the year, where both in second quarter. So they will have an impact in particular quarters, but it was O&E in that second quarter, the third quarter. And fourth quarter didn’t have any comparable types of numbers in that. Absent those kind of roll-outs, our business really isn’t lumpy at all. It’s pretty straight forward. It’s pretty easy to predict. And I mean we do an awful lot of forecasting internally with respect to months and quarters, [indiscernible] become very, very close to our focus. Yes, we had wins. Wins sometimes produce big roll-outs and we have recessions of brands that sometimes produce big results for in a small amount of time. But we expect to continue to have those from time to time. But from a standpoint of driving the business or driving our revenues, we did quite well without those, but we have to win business. After we win the business and we do those roll-outs and refreshes, that becomes regular business for us becomes daily shipping of the customer’s orders to them to all of their maybe hundreds or thousands of locations. But it can only get lumpy when we have those kind of rollouts and I would love to sit here and say, we wish we had more of a work and really hard to make sure we have more of those.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Great, okay good that’s good color, thanks. On the Remote Staffing side, you had a very interesting comment in your prepared remarks about your inability to meet the demand and there are obviously a lot of call center like businesses out there for enterprise customers to choose from. What makes your offering so unique? Why is it growing as fast as it is growing?

Michael Benstock

Management

Well, we find the market for people who need less than 25 seats in a call center to be totally underserved market. The largest call center BPO businesses in the country aren’t going after the 25 seats, they’re going after the 100 seats. So the 100 people doing the exact same thing that they can, and those are pretty tight RFPs and they come down to the end of the tenth of minute, where the tenth of the second how long a call lasts and so on. Ours is a much different structure, it’s an hourly structure with people who are really looking to have in extension of their own office somewhere else. They don’t want to have to manage them, they want somebody else to manage them. But they want to feel as if those people work for them and that’s the kind of service we provide to people, a very specialized service, where if they want to start with five people, we’ll start with five. If we believe there is potential to grow to 25, we will. That’s kind of our sweet spot. Now we’ve had customers grow well beyond the 25. And they started with us on a very small basis. We did a great job to them they are like what they saw in some cases we help them grow their business. And so now, we are the lion’s share of their customer care. So, I think we have a - first of all it does come down to the fact, I think we have a value proposition that even those who compete with us don’t have, we have a very Google like environment in our centers. Work fun environment, we get the cream in the crop. We are thought off in El Salvador and in Belize as one of the top call centers to work for. We get the top employees and we’ll travel fast in that world, people who need BPO services whether it’s because the social media or whatever, but world travels fast and so we are just making sure we don’t trip over ourselves and we’re doing everything we can to do things right. So that this is just a sustainable growing business for us and so far, so good.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Good, I just have a couple of more sort of technical questions, maybe more for Andy. I noticed a big increase in the pension liability to $8 million from $3.6 million a year before, and assuming HPI direct was included in the previous year’s balance sheet. I just wondering what drove that?

Andy Demott

Management

Yeah. HPI actually doesn’t affect the pension liability, we froze it. We had frozen the main picture plant prior to acquiring them. Very much the lion’s share of the increase was due to the fact that our discount rates for valuing the liability at year end went down from 4.6% last year to about 3.8%.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Due to the reduction in interest rates or?

Andy Demott

Management

Yeah, this is due to the bond rates that one that we use to compare proceeding that discount rate.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. And then the CapEx looks like your additions to property, plant and equipment, which I guess I would call CapEx about $5 million last year, do you guys have a plan for 2015?

Andy Demott

Management

We have a plan – I mean in a normal year we are certainly –.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

You talked about it – I mean its –

Andy Demott

Management

Yeah, I will give you some flavor on it. In most years we are standing between $2 million and $3 million in a normal basis for CapEx. Last year included $2 million for the purchase of the land in El Salvador for the new call center that Michael spoke about. And for that call center specifically we’ve got budget around another $5 million or a little over that. And further we expect to spend in bringing that call center up. Other than that I mean we’ll be in normalized types of numbers.

Michael Benstock

Management

And I think I’ve answered question before – when you, Andy gave you our normalize numbers, but if you look at our history almost every five years to six years or so, there is a larger expense. Five years to six years ago we spent money on upgrading our warehouse. Five years to six years before that we spent money on implementing SAP and acquired a large expense for a company than our size. Five or six years before that we built a robotic warehouse at in Arkansas and that was a large expense. So, I don’t know what the next big expense will be beyond the call center expenses five years to six years from now. But it will be related to distribution or to computer technology or some other way to create some other efficiency within our business.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. Very good. Well phenomenal year and keep up the good work, thanks very much.

Andy Demott

Management

Thank you.

Michael Benstock

Management

Thank you

Operator

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] And as there is nothing else at the present time, we would like to turn the call back over to management for any closing comments.

Michael Benstock

Management

Yes. I like to leave all of you with these final thoughts. We said all along that 2014 will be a transformational year. We’ve reported phenomenal results and strengthened our business model. Our diverse business segments offer services for which there is a growing demand. We maintained a good competitive position from a cost efficient platform and generate solid margins with potential for upside leverage. We have evolved while maintaining the same entrepreneurial spirit, our 95-year old heritage was built upon. Our management team and entire workforce are highly motivated to reach the next level of growth and drive optimum results, while strengthening the company's enterprise value, and creating long-term value for our shareholders. Andy and I certainly appreciate your time today and the great questions. We look forward to sharing the results of our progress in the first quarter with you in April. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today’s presentation. You may now disconnect. Have a nice day.