Earnings Labs

Thermon Group Holdings, Inc. (THR)

Q4 2016 Earnings Call· Wed, May 25, 2016

$60.98

+12.79%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

-1.91%

1 Week

-2.67%

1 Month

-10.05%

vs S&P

-5.43%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Thermon Fourth Quarter 2016 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, today's program may be recorded. I would now like to introduce your host for today's program, Sarah Alexander, General Counsel. Please go ahead.

Sarah Alexander

Analyst

Thank you, Jonathan. Good morning, and thank you for joining us for today's earnings conference call. We issued an earnings press release this morning, which has been filed with the SEC on Form 8-K and is also available on the Investor Relations section of our website at www.thermon.com. A replay of today's call will also be available via webcast after the conclusion of this call. This broadcast is property of Thermon. Any redistribution, retransmission or rebroadcast in any form without the expressed written consent of the company is prohibited. During this call, our comments may include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, and our actual results may differ materially from the views expressed today. Some of these risks have been set forth in the press release and in our annual report on Form 10-K to be filed with the SEC by the end of the month. We also would like to advise you that all forward-looking statements made on today's call are intended to fall within the safe harbor provision of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements may include, among others, our outlook for future performance, revenue growth, profitability, leverage ratios, acquisitions, acquisition synergies and various other aspects of our business. During the call, we will also discuss some items that do not conform to generally accepted accounting principles. We have reconciled those items to the most comparable GAAP measures in the tables at the end of the earnings press release. These non-GAAP measures should be considered in addition to, and not as a substitute for, measures of financial performance reported in accordance with GAAP. And now it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Bruce Thames, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Thank you, Sarah. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our conference call and your continued interest in Thermon. Today, we have Jay Peterson, our CFO, joining me on the conference call. Jay will follow me and present the financial details of our fiscal 2016 fourth quarter and full year. However, to start, revenue and earnings were largely as expected for the fourth quarter with the exceptions of gross margins, which were below expectations due to mix, price and volume. Jay will cover this in more detail during the financial results. Given the current uncertainty, I would like to begin with a few comments about our end markets and the macro environment we are experiencing. During the last earnings call, we noted that our business continues to be negatively impacted by 2 primary factors: the low price of oil and the strong U.S. dollar. Fortunately, we have begun to see some stabilization in the price of oil in the mid-$40 per barrel range over the last few weeks. In addition, the FX headwinds have begun to moderate, although a Fed increase in the interest rate could lead to further strengthening of the U.S. dollar. Turning now to provide some color commentary on our 3 primary end markets: oil and gas, chemical and power. Despite the increase and stabilization in oil prices, we continue to see customers delay projects and maintenance spending. By far, upstream projects are the most heavily impacted. We do see some downstream projects proceeding, driven by emissions requirements, changing feedstock and modernization. While the chemical sector has been robust, we have begun to see the increase in supply from the shale plays beginning to drive margin compression, leading to project delays in this sector. Projects that are currently under way are proceeding, albeit at a slower pace.…

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Thank you, Bruce. Good morning. I'd like to start off by discussing our Q4 results, then turn to our fiscal year results, and then conclude with some high-level guidance for fiscal year 2017. First off, revenue this past quarter totaled $72.3 million. And that's a decrease of 3% over the prior year's quarter. Relative to the prior year quarter, our organic revenue declined by $7.1 million or 9.5%. FX currency fluctuations impacted revenue by a negative $2.3 million or negative 3%. And M&A revenue contributed $7 million for the quarter or a positive growth of 9.3%. In the quarter, we continued to experience erosion with our Canadian business, which was down 34% year-on-year on a constant currency basis. Our MRO/UE mix for Q4 was 60% of revenues this quarter whereas Greenfield totaled 40%. Orders for the quarter totaled $73 million versus $52 million in the prior quarter or a growth of 39%. And we saw double-digit order growth in the United States, Asia Pacific and Europe. Our backlog of orders ended March at $81 million versus $76 million at the end of Q4 fiscal year '16. And that's an increase of 7%. And foreign currency fluctuations negatively impacted our backlog by $1.2 million. In terms of gross margins, margin dollars this past quarter totaled $32 million or 44.4% of revenue. Versus the prior year quarter, our margins decreased by 150 basis points due to several factors, including a decline in MRO/UE margins due to lower sales to our agents, product mix, volume contraction and an increase of lower margin construction business. Operating expense that is core operating expense for the quarter, and this excludes depreciation, amortization and transaction-related expenses, totaled $18.7 million. And that's an increase of 4% from prior year. This increase in spending was related to managing our…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Jeff Hammond from KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

So just on the guidance of flat to low single-digit growth, you gave some good color on Canada. Maybe just give us some color on how you're thinking about the different -- the other regions within growth.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes, Scott -- I mean, Jeff, this is Bruce. Real quickly looking at the various regions, we do see it's fairly broad-based both, and the U.S. is really we see as the strongest market. We see growth opportunities in Latin America as well after a pretty soft year. And then some -- probably fairly flat in Europe, Middle East, Africa and some growth opportunities in Asia Pacific.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

Okay. And then you mentioned in your remarks some pricing pressure. Can you speak to where you're seeing that? And I think you said it's likely to persist. Do you see it kind of stabilizing at this lower level? Or do you see more risk for pricing pressure going forward? Maybe just a comment there.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

The pricing pressure we've historically felt in Greenfield. Because there's less work being released, it's even more competitive, so we see it there. We also see pricing pressure in our MRO business. Certainly, we would expect -- based on the current environment, we don't see it improving. So we’d expect margins in this level to continue through the balance of fiscal '17.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

So when you say kind of margins continuing, in the range that you saw closer in the fourth quarter versus the full year?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes, I would say thereabouts. But I don't think we will continue to repeat what we had in the fourth quarter. So I would look more to what we had for the balance of the year. But we could have a specific quarter if we had a large Greenfield project built in that quarter that was very competitively bid, we could see margins as we experienced in Q4.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes, we would like to kind of go back to that 45% range that we've historically generated. Certainly in 2015, we had margins significantly higher. But we believe the 45% range is what we would expect in this current environment.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

Okay. And then just lastly, within that kind of low or flat to low single digits, are you thinking about MRO and Greenfield much differently?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

No, we don't see big swings in that. We think the 60-40 mix is what we would expect going forward.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Scott Graham from BMO.

Katja Jancic

Analyst

This is Katja for Scott Graham. Can you talk a little bit what is behind the strong orders?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes, the orders were fairly broad-based. We have had a number of sizable chemical, petrochemical projects that have contributed to that. But it's generally broad-based ex Canada.

Katja Jancic

Analyst

Okay. Now what is your expectation for tax rate in fiscal '17?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

29%. We had a couple of adjustments this last quarter. The significant adjustment was related to a European affiliate that had a one-time structural change for fiscal year '17 -- excuse me, fiscal year '16. But we don't expect that to continue. For '17, we're modeling 29%.

Katja Jancic

Analyst

Okay. Just one more question. What were sales by region in the quarter?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

We -- in the quarter, the revenue for Canada came in at $11.5 million; Europe, $17.4 million; the U.S., $28.1 million; Asia Pac, $8.1 million; Latin America, 300k. And then the 3 acquisitions, they totaled $7 million for the quarter.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Bhupender Bohra from Jefferies.

Bhupender Bohra

Analyst

So Jay, a question for you. Over the last 2 quarters, we have been -- you guys have been talking about some improvement, kind of a mix shift towards chemical and power projects. And when I look at the orders and the backlog, could you give us some color? And with respect to your guidance for the next year, is that something which will become a little bit more dominant in terms of top line growth? As we continue to see oil and gas capital spending still kind of weak, right? So your customers are not going to spend like the next year. And so just give us some color about chemical and the power markets here.

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes, we continue to see a favorable trend in our U.S. business, which has a significant component of power and chemical. We also believe that even though in this last quarter we had a dip in agent sales that often ultimately end up in chemical and power, we see that to have a resurgence this coming year. So it's possible we will have yet another record year in the U.S. going forward.

Bhupender Bohra

Analyst

Okay. And when I look at -- I mean, the next question for Bruce here on M&A. If I remember correctly, Bruce, we spoke before about like your venture in -- you had mentioned about like going into steam tracing. That could be one of the growth avenues going forward. And with IPI under your belt, there could be some leverage you could pull off like on the steam tracing side. Can you give us some color like which growth area, especially when you mention geographically, you want to do some expansion with respect to that, if you can talk about like the steam tracing market and the growth avenues over there?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes. Well, Thermon began in steam tracing, so it's nothing new to the business. We have been winning some nice opportunities in steam tracing. IPI, that acquisition has given us the capabilities to execute on the field service and construction aspect of those projects as well, which has helped us win. We will continue to look at that space as an opportunity to really continue to grow our business in industrial process heating. Geographically, we do see ex kind of U.S. and Canada, we see opportunities, particularly in Eurasia and in Asia, to geographically grow our business. So those are some of the areas we see opportunities for growth.

Bhupender Bohra

Analyst

Okay. And lastly, Jay, if you can give us the growth rates for the geographical. I think you gave the dollar numbers here for U.S., Canada. Do you have the growth numbers like Canada declined by x? So just...

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes. Canada was down 41%. Europe was down 25%. The U.S. in the quarter, which is an anomaly because they had growth for the year, was down 5.4%. Asia Pac for the quarter was down 19%. And that excludes the acquisition-related revenue. Oh, I'm sorry, I said Europe was down. I think it was up 25%, I apologize.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Brian Drab from William Blair.

Brian Drab

Analyst

I wanted to start by asking about Canada. Obviously, there's major events up there with the fires. And first and foremost, I was happy to hear that it sounds like everyone on the team is safe, although starting to hear some people lost some property. But I'm wondering as we look at your first -- fiscal first quarter with Canada obviously down a lot but still about close to 20% of revenue, how is that affecting -- how were those fires affecting the activity for you? And also maybe just kind of like what you're seeing with respect to the industry in general up there right now.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Well, Brian, this is Bruce. We have been out of our facilities for a couple of weeks now. And certainly, a number of those operations have been idled. Just recently, they've announced the startup of a couple of the major operations, so we would expect that to begin to resume. But certainly, our quick-turn sales have been softer, given the idling of a lot of these facilities. So near term, we would expect, where we are seeing a slowdown there that will impact us in the first quarter, we don't believe that, that will have a significant impact over the course of the year as these facilities start up and get to running.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Is that a big enough issue to where we should be modeling a downtick in revenue or a blip in the first quarter that then recovers as we move through the year?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

What we see, typically our first quarter is the softest quarter of our year. And so I would reiterate that. And then I would also say that looking at timing of backlog, we do see that scheduled out across the year.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Okay. So yes, the seasonality in the first quarter is understood. I'm just wondering, is it -- just to be clear, is the seasonality or is that weakness in the first quarter going to be more severe than typical, given the fires?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

We would expect it to have an impact to our first quarter revenue, yes.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Okay, all right. And then Bruce, maybe you could talk a little bit about the plan to expand the addressable market over the next 5 years. Can you tell us, give us any clue as to what measures you're taking or specific measures you're taking to expand it 2 to 3x?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes. We are looking at adjacencies in and around what we provide to the industry. And our focus is on industrial process heating with heat tracing being that core offering but building around that. And then also we see opportunities to really go beyond that and leverage our core competencies into some other areas of industrial process heating, where we can really deliver an engineered solution in hazardous environments that create value for our customers.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Are you thinking about anything outside of petrochem, power gen, oil and gas?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Well, our focus really is on our end markets, which are oil and gas, the chemical and power. Some of the opportunities could give us -- depending on the end markets, could give us more diversification outside of oil and gas.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Okay. And maybe just 2 more quick ones. Breakdown of your revenue currently or in this most recent quarter in terms of oil and gas, petrochem and power gen?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

We don't have that. Actually, we only do that on an annual basis. And we're in the process of doing those calculations. We'll have those available...

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Within a week or so.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Within a week.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Okay. And then I just want to be clear. So with the revenue guidance and what you said about margins and OpEx outpacing revenue growth, is it fair for us to model EBITDA down in fiscal '17 then?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes, but it will be down modestly, okay? We're not looking at significant reductions in EBITDA year-on-year.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Modestly I would interpret as kind of mid-single digits.

Jay Peterson

Analyst

I would say it's going to be more like -- not to get too specific, but we ended $65 million for the year, $65.3 million. And it's going to be in that neighborhood with a modest reduction.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Charley Brady from SunTrust Robinson Humphrey.

Peng Yao Wu

Analyst

This is actually Patrick Wu standing in for Charley. Just wanted to talk about -- I think you guys mentioned obviously pricing is a big thing for you guys in both MRO and Greenfield. And I think mixed more on the MRO side. So I just want to touch on that a little bit. In terms of the projects that you guys are seeing in your backlog and obviously with the competitive pricing and usually these projects are longer term in nature, how long do you think the drag will be to your margins as you work down this backlog? And then on the MRO side, is service -- what is the mix of service within MRO/UE for this quarter? Because we would imagine that's generally on the lower end of the margins so that's why the mix has been dragged down. Is that correct to say that?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes, in terms of your first question, the backlog margins, that's a very difficult question for us to answer in that the MRO has significant velocity to it. It comes and goes very quickly. And whether we bill or not bill a certain Greenfield project in a given quarter will impact our margins. But the guidance is this 60-40 split going forward. And we don't have any evidence that, that will change due to the current dynamics that we see in the backlog.

Peng Yao Wu

Analyst

And I guess how about the second part, which is the service portion of the MRO/UE? Was that -- what was the mix on that?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

That's something that we have not in the past disclosed. But we believe that will trend upward this year due to several initiatives and investments we are making in our services business.

Peng Yao Wu

Analyst

Okay, that's fair. And I think last quarter, you guys mentioned that fiscal year '16, you guys expected acquisitions to comprise around $30 million. And I think you came in around $26 million. I guess over the past few months, what have you seen that's shifted in terms of dynamics for that, I guess, shortfall in the $4 million? Is that something you guys can maybe provide more color on?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes, the main driver of that -- and it's actually very good news when you look out over the next several years. And that is our temporary power business that we acquired had started a rental program just about the time we acquired them. And we made a certain assumption in terms of revenue mix for purchases versus rentals. And they significantly outstripped the rental mix that we anticipated. And even though we saw them not hitting their revenue target, they did hit and actually slightly exceeded their earnings target, their EBITDA target, due to this margin-rich, profit-rich revenue business that will -- rental business that will continue into fiscal year '17. So that's the biggest reason we did not hit that $30 million number.

Peng Yao Wu

Analyst

Okay. And if I can add one more, orders obviously was very strong this quarter. And I think last quarter, you guys mentioned quoting activity was up, but that was not necessarily translated to bookings. I wanted to see if you guys can quantify how much of the increase in orders this quarter, what maybe like pushed back into this current quarter. And how much of that is the sort of a slightly improved view on the macro environment? Well, at least with oil prices being up inching closer to $50, how would you classify the dynamics between those 2?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes, they're both favorable trends, especially the oil number and the quotes, obviously. And there is a lag or a delay between the time we quote business to the time that we win the order. But both were favorable.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is a follow-up from the line of Jeff Hammond from KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

I don't know if I missed this. But within like the flat to low single-digit growth, what's kind of the acquisition contribution versus FX headwind?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Jeff, what we see is the acquisitions will contribute an additional $6 million to $8 million in revenue during the fiscal year. And then the balance would be what we see in our organic business.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

Okay. And FX is neutral?

Jay Peterson

Analyst

I think for the current quarter, it's going to be a magnitude of maybe, and I'm guessing here, $0.5 million negative.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

Okay. And then it would be pretty neutral?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes.

Jay Peterson

Analyst

Yes. We're seeing some favorable trends with the euro. The CAD is coming close to parity.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

Okay. And then on new product spend, do we -- do you see incremental growth in spending? Or has it just continued to stay at the high level you had in '16?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Yes. We do see some incremental growth in spending in the range of about $3 million. And we're investing in not only new product development but some other organic growth initiatives. So we do see that, some growth in those areas. And Jeff, we've got plans for growing organically our new products introduction so that by fiscal 2021, we would expect an incremental $40 million annually from these new product offerings.

Jeffrey Hammond

Analyst

Okay. And then you mentioned the one new product, and then you had 3 more rolling out. Is there anything you could talk about on the 3 new?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

We'll share that as they're released throughout the course of the year.

Operator

Operator

Our next question is a follow-up from the line of Bhupender Bohra from Jefferies.

Bhupender Bohra

Analyst

Just on new products again, could you give us a sense like which end products markets these new products are rolling out into?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

They're fairly broad-based. So these are platforms that really can be utilized in any of our end markets in applications for industrial process heating.

Bhupender Bohra

Analyst

Okay. And just wanted to get a sense of when I look at a pie chart from an end market perspective, I believe about like 25% of your channel, kind of distribution-based. What are you hearing through your distribution channel? What kind of a growth we had in the quarter? And if you want to talk about that for fiscal '17, how do we see that?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Well, yes. So we actually saw that fairly weak in the fourth quarter. And that was part of the margin decline in MRO sales that Jay had noted in the financial reporting. So we have continued to see some softness there. But as I spoke about, we see that the maintenance spending in some of the smaller projects, the UE piece of our MRO, those small upgrades and expansions, we would expect that a lot of that spending is being deferred. Much of it is related to critical maintenance or some of it even driven by regulatory requirements. So we do anticipate a return. Predicting that timing is difficult. And as I said, as we begin to see that spending increase, that has historically been favorable to our margin mix.

Bhupender Bohra

Analyst

Okay. And lastly, on one of the geographies, like Asia Pacific, especially the Middle East, what you saw in the quarter and how should we think about that like going into fiscal '17 here? Any changes from last year or like worse or better?

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Middle East is actually one of our bright spots in Europe. There's a couple of areas that are positive. Eurasia has actually been strong as well. And we have a very strong backlog in the Middle East, although the mix of business, the margins are not as favorable. But we have a very strong backlog going into the fiscal year.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And this does conclude the question-and-answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to Bruce Thames for any further remarks.

Bruce Thames

Analyst

Again, I'd like to thank everyone for your interest in Thermon. Thank you for joining us today, and we appreciate your support.

Operator

Operator

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.