Operator
Operator
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Q3 2009 earnings conference call. I would like to introduce your speaker today, Mr. John Wheeler. Please go ahead.
TELUS Corporation (TU)
Q3 2009 Earnings Call· Fri, Nov 6, 2009
$12.31
-0.16%
Same-Day
+2.30%
1 Week
+0.14%
1 Month
+5.69%
vs S&P
+2.99%
Operator
Operator
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Q3 2009 earnings conference call. I would like to introduce your speaker today, Mr. John Wheeler. Please go ahead.
John Wheeler
Operator
Thank you very much and thank you for joining us for our third quarter 2009 investor call. The call is scheduled for up to one hour. The news release on the third quarter financial and operating results and detailed supplemental investor information are posted on our Web site, TELUS.com/investors. In addition for those with the internet access, the quarterly presentation slides are also available at this site. You’ll be in listen-only mode during the opening comments and let me now direct your attention to slide #2. The forward-looking nature of the presentation answers the questions and statements about future events are subject to risk and uncertainties and assumptions. Accordingly, actual results could differ materially from statements made today, so do not place undo reliance on them. We also disclaim any obligation to update forward-looking statements, except as required by law. I ask that you read our legal disclaimers and refer you to the risks and assumptions outlined in our public disclosure and filings with Securities Commissions in Canada and the U.S. Turning to slide #3 for an outline of today’s agenda, we will start with introductory comments and a review of the quarter by Bob McFarlane, our Executive VP and CFO; covering recent corporate developments will be Darren Entwistle, our President and CEO, and Joe Natale, President, Consumer Solutions. This will be followed by a question-and-answer session. Let me turn the presentation over to Bob starting on slide #4.
Bob McFarlane
Analyst
Thanks, John, and good morning, everyone. Let’s begin with a summary of the wireless highlights. Overall wireless revenues were relatively flat as equipment in other revenue growth of 16% were offset by lower network revenue growth as voice ARPU remained under pressure. Revenues from Black’s Photography are being recorded in wireless equipment revenue. So this is the quarter includes about one-month of Black’s revenue of $6 million. Operational expenses increased by 1.6% driven higher by equipment expenses to support retention efforts in customer migrations to smartphones. And higher network operating expenses to support data revenue growth. Marketing expenses decreased due to lower advertising and promotion expenses or lower commissions helped lower marketing expenses. Restructuring costs increased by $2 million. All-in, wireless EBITDA declined by $9 million or 1.7%. As planned CapEx increased by $60 million due to the investment in our HSPA network that was launched yesterday. Turning to slide #5, net wireless subscriber adds this quarter were 125,000 with post-paid net adds of 131,000, representing 105% of the mix. We are encouraged to see that the net additions continue to improve sequentially in the face of a highly competitive market where competitors had access to unique popular devices. Year-over-year net subscriber additions decreased 16% when including the deactivation of subscribers from the turn down of the analog network a year ago. Net additions were impacted by a combination of reduced pre-paid loading and the current churn of Koodo subscribers being at normal levels. Whereas a year ago there was a minimal churn given its then recent service launch. We also observed the continuing industry trend whereby net adds were relatively more impacted by the economic recession in BC, Alberta, and Ontario where unemployment levels remain relatively higher in some other provinces. Our total subscriber base is up 7% year-over-year…
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Thanks, Bob. In my remarks I will cover four major developments of TELUS that certainly mark a significant transformation in the Canadian wireless industry and that I believe bode well for improving our competitive position and future performance. Indeed my estimation these are game changing developments in our industry. Let me begin on slide #24. In September TELUS acquired Black’s, Canada’s premium national imaging and digital retailer. This $26 million acquisition is in excellent fit with our company. First, it expands the distribution of TELUS’ wireless products across Canada through a set of premium mall locations. It is particularly complementary because 72% of the 113 stores are located in Ontario, where we are targeting increased distribution. Secondly, Black’s is a nearly 80-year-old national brand with the strong reputation for customer excellence, excellent service and as well importantly a highly qualified staff of professional employees that complement the robust TELUS team that we have here. Finally, Black’s business is characterized by recurring and more of retail customer-based that will naturally gravitate towards camera phones. We moved swiftly to train Black’s employees, create attractive in-store displays and commence an advertising campaign. Just yesterday we launched the sale of more than eight dozen TELUS camera phones in our 113 Black’s locations just 62 days after we closed the acquisition, further demonstrating our strong execution in this regard. Let’s move to a second major development on the next slide. Slide #25. Yesterday TELUS achieved an important milestone with the early launch of Canada’s largest and fastest 3G+ network. This launch represents a landmark development for TELUS and Canadian consumers. Now more than 30 million Canadians can access advanced speed and services through TELUS’ 3G+ network, the most innovative wireless technology available today is being deployed. This put Canada as the forefront wireless technology on…
Joe Natale
Analyst
Thanks, Darren. I am excited to note that the launch of our 3G+ network coupled with the immediate availability of a wide variety of new HSPA smartphones form TELUS such as the iconic apple iPhone 3GS is consumers more choice and effectively ends the one supplier monopoly in Canada. The iPhone 3GS is the fastest, most powerful iPhone yet, packed with a credible new features including improved speed and performance. We began selling both iPhone models this week. Slide #29 & 30 show an array of other HSPA devices also being introduced alongside our new network. This week we launched the Blackberry Bold 9700 which has begun its global debut. Our sales channels are excited to be in the forefront of this Blackberry launch, particularly since it is the start of the holiday selling season. This is not always been the case as you know. As shown on next slide we are also introducing the HTC Hero running on the Androig platform, LG New chocolate, the Nokia E71, and the Sierra Internet Key. Some great devices for this season. Importantly, these new devices are coming to TELUS clients earlier than ever before and the applications of these smartphones was exceedingly well on our Fab high speed network. Additionally, we have new CDMA devices coming to the market as well including some which are exclusive to TELUS. While we recognize investors concerns on the short-term impact on costs of our acquisition of retention from smartphones sales increasingly observers are acknowledging the benefits of loading higher ARPU clients with higher data and life time revenues. We also realize that this is incumbent on us to manage wireless costs effectively with discipline to benefit from the tremendous opportunity for a profitable growth that these devices provide for TELUS. Coupled with the launch of…
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Thanks, Joe. Let’s conclude on slide #32. And I'll summarize the quarter and recent developments. Our wireless and wireline results continue to be affected by the recession and ongoing competitive intensity, which combined with our earlier than expected introduction of the iPhone and other HSPA devices that are important to our line up are impacting our guidance for the year. Though our intent to continue focus on delivering operating costs efficiencies we are largely offsetting revenue weakness on underlying normalized operating earnings. Next we continue to make significant strategic investments in our wireless and adds well our wireline broadband networks. This is paying off with the early launch of our 3G+ network and associated device offerings for consumers and businesses and the acceleration of our TELUS TV service. To sum up I believe TELUS is clearly leading the changing Canada’s wireless market by delivering exceptional client experiences to the series of major initiatives we've completed just this past week. We very much look forward to capitalizing on these developments in the marketplace. Let me also note that I am very pleased by the operational execution and project implementation expertise demonstrated by the TELUS team which has significantly improved our competitive position. In the past, I have been occasionally publicly critical of our organization’s performance when warranted. Within this context I can say conclusively that I have never been as confident nor positive as to the future prospects of our company. I will now hand the call back to John.
John Wheeler
Operator
Thanks, Darren. Before we start with the Q&A with Darren, Joe and Bob, I'd ask your cooperation in asking one question at a time please. (inaudible) request before. And Daniel, could you please proceed? Thanks.
Operator
Operator
(Operator instructions) Thank you, John. Our question will be from Jonathan Allen at RBC Capital. Please go ahead. Jonathan Allen – RBC Capital: Thanks very much. Darren, like to ask you a question about the dividend policy. Last few years I think, four years or five years now you have done a regular dividend increase. While profitability has been depressed even with some of your peers I think they have reinforced the desire to have at least a modestly growing annual dividend policy going forward. So I'm just curious why the company is sticking with the 45% to 55% EPS payout ratio and either pushing that higher, particularly with the CapEx spending coming down next year, looks like you do have a better buffer on the free cash flow payout. Thanks.
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Number one, that's a long-term policy that we set out and taken a long-term view of our earnings potential from a growth perspective we continue to believe that it’s the prudent policy for this organization. I think it’s also important to report that as a director on the board of TELUS the TELUS board remains committed to our long-term dividend growth model and more broadly to returning cash to investors through the appropriate mechanism, so they participate in the fruits of our labor, in terms of delivering economic returns from the J-curve investments that we make and I think our track record in this particular area is nothing short of exemplary.
John Wheeler
Operator
Fair to say, John, at this juncture we're experiencing some significant on strategy investments that in my estimation warranted a holiday on the successive dividend increases. I think it's important to illustrate empirically that if you go back to December of 2004 and look at the December 2004 to 2009 period we've returned $5.5 billion of cash to our investors over that particular period and a significant component of that was through five successive dividend increases that were rather material in nature and that is the long-term path for this organization. Also if you look at the existing dividend given our stock price the yield has been toggling between 5% and 6% which we believe is attractive. As you’ve heard from Bob this morning, we've instituted the dividend or discount dividend reinvestment plan with a 3% discount, again, I think that’s attractive in terms of investors wanting to reinvest in our stock. Jonathan Allen – RBC Capital: Quick clarification question for you. In the past you just done on the dividend increase at the early November time period, would the board consider doing reviewing it on a quarterly basis or should we not get investors helps up in the next few quarters and just look to next year instead?
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Number one, that’s the provident of the board, the board does look at the dividend on a quarterly basis, but if you were to inference from that I think that would be inappropriate at this stage I would be looking to next year in terms of the medium term. Jonathan Allen – RBC Capital: Okay, thanks.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question will be from Greg MacDonald at National Bank. Please go ahead Greg MacDonald – National Bank: Thanks. Good morning, guys. Question is on the wireless EBITDA guidance changes. I can appreciate the new mix issue i.e. expectation of higher smartphone loads in the 4Q. But the $75 million delta, change is a pretty large delta. I wonder if there is something underlying the change there besides subsidies i.e. your comment a little bit on network costs is that also an issue that you are considering could have an impact alternatively actively migrating subscribers from the CDMA side to the HSPA side is an option that would pressure margin you do have an incentive to do that in particular freeing up that CDMA network for alternative strategy. Can you say whether internal migration is also part of what you expect on the fourth quarter? Thank you
Bob McFarlane
Analyst
Greg, in terms of the revised guidance that I don’t think there is any in the Qs we used the phrase or hidden underlying pressures other than such as COA and COR Obviously, we've just introduced a great line up of new handsets in conjunction with our new network launch. One would expect volumes are going to pick up and the associated COA and some COR as we have some of the base migrate up to the new phones has reflected in the guidance. We do not see any mark increase in migration cost in this quarter with respect to say Mike [ph] migration etc., as Darren has referenced we're going to continue selling the CDMA network and we've some great new devices, some of which are unique exclusive to our organization which will tell some demand in the marketplace as well. So essentially no surprises. I think the most fundamental aspect of this is you've got an ARPU, that’s been decreasing and we're expecting loading to increase and the combination I’ve already outlined the trend ARPU were expected to improve, it’s going to be down year-over-year. Meanwhile we are expecting loading increase in the combination of the two should impact EBITDA in the short-term? Greg MacDonald – National Bank: Thanks, Bob.
Operator
Operator
Our next question would be from Vince Valentini at TD Newcrest. Please go ahead Vince Valentini – TD Newcrest: Yes, thanks very much. Questions on your wireless CapEx. Now that over 30 million population is covered by HSPA, does that imply that from November 5th on there will be a dramatic drop in your wireless CapEx or is there still another year or so of – though we know the footprint increasing the tower density or anything else I'm just trying to get a gauge of how quickly we should expect that component of the CapEx to fall up?
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Well I think couple of things, if you go back to the comment that we made previously in respect of wireless broadband we said that proponents of the waiting within 2009 but that there would be continued build activity through the 2010 period effectively towards the middle part of 2010, but that the way the wireless broadband build was going to be shouldered in 2009. So there will be continuing CapEx to support the requirements that we think are prudent for our HSPA investment and to drive through the HSPA plus coverage on a ubiquitous basis. We have other markets as well where we want to pursue opportunities, Manitoba are being the case in point, but the way really is in 2009 I think the best illustration of that was in respect of the slide when Bob made the comment that we are looking to trend our CapEx to circle 1.7 billion in 2010, a lot of that is illustrated the fact that the way on our wireless broadband build project was in 2009 allowing us to take our CapEx down by circa $400 million in 2010. There is also some other factors that are important for people to think about that are somewhat unique to 2009 and we started up by satellite TV operation that required capital, we have had a unusually high level of large enterprise and public sector deals that will proceed through the operational implementation phase over ‘09 and early 2010, but hopefully the weight of the capital thereafter would be behind us and we think looking back empirically to where we were from a CapEx perspective between 2006 and 2008 it's useful, not exact, but a useful leading indicator as to where we would be in the future. And so when you think about things like even E911 again that was a regulatory edict that we had to shoulder in 2009 that was CapEx intensive that will not be reoccurring in 2010. So those things together from a portfolio perspective of what’s supporting our ability to take our CapEx down to more normalized levels. Vince Valentini – TD Newcrest: Thank you.
Operator
Operator
Our next question would be from Glen Campbell at Bank of America. Please go ahead Glen Campbell – Bank of America: Yes, thanks very much. My question is on wireless ARPU, particularly the voice set part, in the MD&A you talked about the factors that have contributed to the drop overage, roaming, Mike and so on, you didn’t mentioned long distance. I'm wondering if you can just talk over the longest and the contributor and more generally I mean we don’t necessarily giving it some numbers can you talk about what is the percentage decline for this quarter versus Q2 or sort of higher, lower in each case for those drivers. Thanks.
Bob McFarlane
Analyst
Well in respect of long distance, Glen, we are experiencing a decline for certain with respect to wireless and wire line I think you've seen the wire line reported separately. So that is a similar trend that we're seeing on a wireless side. That’s a component of the voice erosion that’s being experienced. But overall there is a variety of factors that are affecting our ARPU, they are outlined in the MD&A and one of them often talked about is the mix of Koodo going in, while Koodo ARPU is on plan in fact the impact to overall ARPU from (inaudible) is actually less than the impact from declining PCS roaming on revenues. So we are experiencing and that’s in part because the recession I think and a cross board of traffic and the like in the absence of participating in the international traffic beyond United States with the CDMA that should change as we go forward and ramp up on the HSPA side. Again, in summary, the impact has been felt on long distances as on local and the voice side. Glen Campbell – Bank of America: What we are trying to do I guess just trying to isolate recession impacts. If you look at just roaming with a year-over-year percentage decline now worst in Q3 than in Q2?
Bob McFarlane
Analyst
I don’t have it in hand in terms of sequential, but certainly it was a material negative trend on year-over-year basis. Glen Campbell – Bank of America: Okay, thanks Bob.
Operator
Operator
(Operator instructions) Our next question would be from Dvai Ghose at Genuity Capital Market, please go ahead. Dvai Ghose – Genuity Capital Market: Hi, thanks. Question for Darren or Joe, regarding wireless going forward. It’s obviously encouraging that CapEx will come down, now that HSPA released on and congratulations on that. But the concern is you get a squeeze because of lower ARPUs, which I think will continue for the foreseeable future and higher device subsidies on the HSPA side. I think more than your peers you focus on the term AMPU which I think is powerful term, but we are not quite clear as to how you are going to defend AMPU in the face of falling ARPUs and rising subsidies Could you share some of your strategies? Would you for example look at things like value course plans as they have in Japan with the devices that have subsidized and return for a lower air time pricing, would you look at increased outsourcing paperless, bills, etc.,?
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Alright, Dvai. What I would do is I’d start it off and I'll give Natale an opportunity to buttress my comments with anything that I leave out here along the way. A few things I think probably important to know in terms of the ARPU pressure, TELUS subscribes to the view that we are in a declining ARPU environment and if we don’t drive cost efficiencies we're going to experience a perpetual margin compression Having said that I would say to you that the magnitude of the ARPU degradation that we experienced over the November 2008 to January 2009 period was particularly greater than what we think we would see on a recurring basis we saw a significant concentrated ARPU degradation over that 90-day period between November 2008 and January 2009 that would soon be normalized on a year-over-year basis. I think that will be a decidedly part of thing for this organization where the impact I believe is underestimated by analysts and investors. In addition to that, Dvai, having the opportunity to participate in data revenues that we have been previously denied access to from a smartphone perspective as a result of our HSPA investment I think is extremely attractive for TELUS over the longer-term, so yes smartphones de present new term J-curve dilution. I think if you look at the year empirical evidence they do represent significant opportunities for economic growth attractive mediums a longer term margins again supported by the data application that these devices allow to come to provision and I am excited by that particular opportunity. Also we will get opportunities to participate in markets that we have previously not had access to whether they are geographical markets because the breadth of our coverage or whether they relate to roaming on a in roaming or…
Bob McFarlane
Analyst
Joe, any post-script?
Joe Natale
Analyst
Just one quick comment, Darren talked about extensively the things we're doing around of AMPU as an organization, clear and simple have become not just the branding around rate plans, clear and simple, we are pushing hard as call from mindset within the organization and we believe with that as a mindset we can drive productivity improvements throughout different parts of the organization. I believe with that kind of focus as Darren described that you get very much a three way gain not only to drive improved customer satisfaction, which, of course, makes directly to retention and certainly attract customers who achieve a level of trust and support based on clarity and simplicity, really fundamentally believe it drives productivity inside the organization. Take an example right now on the sales channel where some of the new and exciting handsets that are out there as part of this launch we have been through intensive training around the notion of smart fit the last number of weeks with our front-line sales people, now our customers more than ever are confused about which smartphone is best for them and if you look carefully at return rates in some parts of our business it’s often driven by the fact that we haven’t provided the right level of clarity and simplicity at the very front end of the process so it’s ideas like that, every piece of the value chain whether it’s in sales, in service, looking at the call volumes within the call center and why customers are calling, directing them towards web self serve it’s very much a cultural mindset that we have pressed upon the organization with some of the changes and focus on AMPU.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question will come from Peter Rhamey, BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Peter Rhamey – BMO Capital Markets: Great, thanks very much and good morning. Looking at guidance once again I think someone else one of the first questions dealt with the implied margins on a go-forward basis and I do note that it looks like the wireline margins implied are going to be flat particularly if you take up restructuring charges in the fourth quarter. So I assume you are looking at stable margins there. But on the wireless side you're going to have a $70 million to $80 million EBITDA decline and when we looked at other companies that have launched the iPhone namely AT&T and Rogers, you see it takes a couple of quarters for margins to normalize again. TELUS has always been very good at balancing growth and profitability. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your strategy, you're a little bit different in that you're doing a completely different network platform for the iPhone than the others, but I was wondering do you push growth here to get scale earlier on or can you tend to meter the progress there in terms of getting not only the iPhone customers, but HSPA customers, in general? Thank you.
Bob McFarlane
Analyst
Well, Peter, I think you have summarized it fairly well in terms of wireline margins excluding restructuring being relatively stable on a go-forward basis and obviously somewhat affected as we come out of the economic decline generally that the overall economy has experienced over the past year or so, should be helpful. On the wireless front clearly we have seen through the iPhone in North America both AT&T and Rogers, of course, here in Canada, near-term margin compression resulting from significant loading of the devices and subsidies associated with them and we have also seen in recent periods how that’s transitioned as they go through that J-curve to significant margin expansion. And I think that is part of the empirical experience that Darren was referencing in his comment. So clearly in our case not only the iPhone, but with the whole set exciting devices that are introducing to the market, that bodes well for the prospects of our loading and we're not going to give specific subscriber guidance or expectations either for this quarter or for next year, but suffice to say we do expect a significant acceleration in loading and consequently plan does reflect the COA, that would be associated with that. The other thing that is worth perhaps mentioning and I am sure you have noted this development with say AT&T or Rogers is their ratio of loading on the iPhone to the base relative to the new subscribers had trended on an approved fashion over time and so in contrast to the experience where say just over a year ago when the product was being introduced in Canada at least and there hadn’t been any previous iPhone and there is a significant head up demand. And in our case obviously the iPhone has been offered in Canada for some time so it’s not quite the same dynamic with respect to the pent up demand and the implication from COR. But having said that clearly our go-forward guidance for the rest of this year and going forward next year there will be some margin compression has resulted the growth associated with these devices and that’s why it’s so important to have that AMPU focus that Darren referenced is in complete acknowledgement of that and then if you go forward into the medium term as we're seeing elsewhere you start to get the flow through benefits of those new devices and the recurring revenues and the passive economics affecting the margin, so we are quite prepared to invest in our future and are excited about the growth prospects in front of us on wireless.
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
I think as well you know couple of additional things worth pointing out to the comments that Bob has made which were bang on. To think that the growth is just related to the iPhone I think is wrong, if you look at the impact of TELUS not having the Blackberry Bold, particularly in Q4 of last year that was very punitive for our organization arguably just as punitive as not having the iPhone was. And now that both of those devices in our device line up concurrently is exciting for us from a growth perspective in the near-term. Additionally, we have seen a lot of interest in our Android device. Certainly, for me, it was encouraging yesterday to see the traffic in our stores that the traffic was not uniquely directed to the iPhone but what we're doing with the Blackberry 9700 and a lot of interest in the HTC Hero, particularly amongst the young people. And so it’s not a one tenet to our near-term growth that we're talking about. But a multiplicity of opportunities because of the breadth of our device based. The other thing I think people sometimes underestimate is that our footprint in terms of smartphone availability at high speed is 93% in Canada, so we can reach a lot of people very, very quickly, so this is no longer a situation where the board of the iPhone or the Hero is in urban offering our footprint I think will create much greater attraction and again I think that bodes well for near-term growth. One of the big frustrations that we've had here in Vancouver is our inability to address effectively the ethnic community. We have a very vibrant ethnic community that represents a very lucrative economic opportunity for TELUS, but we were missing a…
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question will come from Jeffrey Fan at Scotia Capital. Please go-ahead. Jeffrey Fan – Scotia Capital: Good morning. My question is on the CapEx guidance for next year. It sounds like the bulk of the decline is coming from the wireless front, with the build-out now nearly complete, just wondering what’s going on, on the wireline side within your guidance maybe talk a little bit about the qualitatively? And just maybe review for us the state of the network and the kind of bandwidth that you are able to deliver today and why are you expecting to get in the future in light of what Shoals [ph] is currently doing, going to DOCSIS 3 with 5000 megabit service now being introduced? Thanks.
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Okay. I will be consistent with my comment that I made previously. If you look the two broadband investments the weighting of the wireless broadband investment was significantly y towards 2009. The broadband wireline investment is kind of split equally over 2009 and 2010. If you look at where we are right now our coverage roughly is around and this is at the ADSL 2 plus level is around 90% within Edmonton. ADSL 2 plus allows us to get to circle a 15 meg zone where 90% in the Edmonton, 80% in Calgary, and about 50% covered in the lower Mainland. So really the work add for us is to take our coverage up over the course of 2010, so ADSL to plus footprint covers 90% of the top 48 communities across Alberta, and BC. The ADSL 2 plus infrastructure is necessary the best way to think about it, is that infrastructure acts as a chassis over which you would deploy VDSL 2 line card in your network infrastructure which is effectively very inexpensive thing to do, it is just a card overlay on the ADSL 2 plus infrastructure, which would take your speeds from 15 megs up to 30 megs. The other thing that we would be doing along with that would be pursuing BDSL cell 2 bonding which is an increasing development amongst ILECs on a global basis and through multiplexing or bonding, if you will, were capable of doubling the bandwidth from 30 megs to 60 megs. And we believe that from a bandwidth perspective is a very, very competitive level of both bandwidth and coverage to polity when you think that we will have that coverage over the top 48 communities across Alberta and BC. It’s also important to note that one of the things that our satellite deployment has given us instantaneous ubiquitous coverage on TV, which allows us not only to address the rural markets effectively outside those 48 communities, but also allows us to toggle our CapEx within the 48 communities as the situation would dictate and that situation ranges from capital affordability right through to competitive intensity in terms of what's going on with our major competitor. And then lastly, I think it's important t point out that there are some things that were unique, the 2009, including the satellite start-up or the E911 build or some of the IT undertaking that we had as well as some of the disproportionate weighting that we had on large complex deals within the enterprise and public sector space that will begin to (inaudible) over 2010. So that’s the thumbnail sketch of both our bandwidth perspective and our access infrastructure and a view of 2009 versus 2010 as it relates to CapEx. And just a quick follow-on. The upgrade going from ADSL 2+ to the VDSL bonding do you expect to do that in 2010, is that 2011 will be on?
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
No, we will be doing that in 2010 in terms of the VDSL2 deployment. Whether we get it al done in 2010 across the top 48 communities again remains to be determined according to both competitive intensity and capital affordability. But what we don’t get done in 2010 would get done early in 2011. That’s for the BDSL2 deployment; bonding will be done on a selective basis, as the opportunities and the competitive situation dictates. Jeffrey Fan – Scotia Capital: Great. Thanks very much.
John Wheeler
Operator
Daniel, we are now through a little over an hour we will take one more question. Thank you
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our last question will be from Simon Flannery at Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Simon Flannery – Morgan Stanley: Thanks a lot. Thanks for putting me in. Wanted to come back to wireline as well. I could (inaudible) the wireless but just talk about what the enterprise is the sort of mindset in terms of spending and willingness to start looking at budgets again and what could we start to see a pickup in that, is that something that you are seeing in any of your weakness, any peak up in enterprise activity I don’t know wireless or the wireline side? Thanks
Darren Entwistle
Analyst
Okay, in terms of enterprise activity I would say generically is still very sluggish both wireless and in respective wireline as well. I could be more specific the pickup is happening very slowly within the oil sector in Alberta, in particular, that’s true both the wireline and wireless. One of the big impacts that TELUS felt that that was I think disproportionate to TELUS was the downturn in the oil based economy. One projects started to get cut, contractors started to get let go and when you have the type of market share that we have in wireless in Alberta with the type of ARPU that we generated when those contractors get let go, there is a definitive impact on both wireless from a client perspective but also wireless from an economic ARPU perspective. So we are starting to see some improvements, but it’s extremely slow across the enterprise market in totality. If you look at our expansion in the east, we have been very successful with a number of investments in terms of the Ontario governments or the Department of National Defense or the City of Montréal or the Government of Quebec, number of those deals have either been implemented or they are going through the implementation phase. We would expect over the course of 2010 and 2011 those particular deals to start generating a profit return and then economic cash return to the TELUS organization as we go through the J-curve investment associated with the implementation and start getting to a decent run rate in terms of both profitability and cash generation. But holistically in terms of the enterprise market per se on a national basis improvement right now is slow. Simon Flannery – Morgan Stanley: Okay, thanks.
John Wheeler
Operator
Okay, that concludes the Q&A session. Thank you very much everybody that's joined us on the phone and the Internet today