Earnings Labs

Ultrapar Participações S.A. (UGP)

Q2 2025 Earnings Call· Thu, Aug 14, 2025

$5.84

-0.68%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

+0.92%

1 Week

+0.31%

1 Month

+20.18%

vs S&P

+17.85%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning. Thank you for waiting. Welcome to the earnings release call of Ultrapar to discuss the results referring to the second quarter of 2025. The presentation will be conducted by Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, CEO of Ultrapar; and by Mr. Alexandre Palhares, CFO of Ultrapar. Our question-and-answer session will also have Mr. Leonardo Linden, CEO of Ipiranga; Tabajara Bertelli CEO of Ultragaz; and Fulvius Tomelin CEO of Ultracargo. This call is being recorded, and it may be accessed in the website, ri.ultra.com.br. After the presentation, we are going to start the question-and-answer session when further instructions will be provided. I'd also like to let you know that our conference is being conducted in Portuguese and there is simultaneous translation available through interpretation. For those listening to the conference in English, you may mute the original volume just listening to the English translation. The presentation will be shown in Portuguese and the version in English is available for download from the website of the company or through the chat. Before moving on, we would like to clarify that forward-looking statements that may be made during this conference call with respect to business prospects of Ultrapar, their forecast, operational and financial goals of the company are all based on beliefs and assumptions of the Executive Board as well as on currently available information. There are no guarantee of performance. They involve risks and uncertainties since they relate to future events, and therefore, depend on circumstances, which may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic conditions, the market and other operational factors may affect the future performance of the company and lead to results which may differ materially from those expressed in these forward-looking statements. I would like now to hand it over to Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, who will start the presentation. Mr. Pizzinatto, you have the floor.

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

It is a pleasure to half of 2025 and talk about our achievements and what we are building always focused on the long-term value creation and the development and growth of our businesses. Among the highlights, I want to call your attention to the strong operational cash flow generation, even with BRL 900 million reduction in draft discount due to the IOF tax burden as a result of our disciplined focus on working capital management. Furthermore, we achieved record results at Hidrovias, which has been consolidated into Ultrapar's financials since May when we became the controlling shareholder after its capital increase. Still regarding Hidrovias, I also reinforced our belief in its potential for growth in value creation. The stronger results, the reduction in net debt and in the cost of debt, along with all the liability management actions executed after the capital increase already demonstrated part of this plan. And regarding Ipiranga, we recognized BRL 677 million in extraordinary tax credits resulting from the remaining portion of historical ICMS tax credits in the PIS/COFINS calculation basis. We continue to experience illegalities in the fuel sector, including the increase in the regular import of naphtha for selling as gasoline with reduced tax burden and noncompliance with the required biodiesel blend in diesel. On the other hand, there were advances with the implementation of the single-phase taxation of hydrated ethanol for PIS and COFINS in May and the publishing of the list of companies not complying with the RenovaBio program despite the limited effect after injections that prevented the disclosure of certain companies' names. I also highlight the evolutions in Sao Paulo state with the start of the tax solidarity principle for resellers and distributors for state tax not collected, a milestone in Brazil's fight against tax evasion. And at Ultracargo, we…

Alexandre Mendes Palhares

Management

Thank you, Rodrigo, and good morning, everyone. Well, first, I'd like to remind you of the reporting criteria and standards used for the analysis that will be made in this presentation, which can be seen in this slide. This specific result has some particularities related to the first consolidation of Hidrovias and includes 3 months from the share of profit on its results in order to eliminate the lag, and we have been carrying as well as 2 months of EBITDA from May and June. Now let's move to the next slide, where we will see Ultrapar's results. Total EBITDA reached BRL 2.07 billion that represents a significant growth compared to last year, partially driven by the recognition of extraordinary tax credits. The recurring EBITDA for the quarter totaled BRL 1.468 billion, representing an increase of 15% compared to the second quarter last year. This performance mainly reflects the consolidation of Hidrovias results and Ultragaz' better results, which were partially offset by Ipiranga's lower EBITDA. Considering the sum of the reported EBITDA from our business, we reached BRL 1.541 billion, slightly above last year's level. The strong performance from Hidrovias and Ultragaz offset Ipiranga's results. The net income was BRL 1.151 billion in the quarter, an increase of 134% compared to the same period of the previous year, reflecting the higher operating results and the recognition of extraordinary tax credit in the amount of BRL 677 million. The CapEx for the quarter was BRL 544 million. This represents an increase of 14% compared to last year, mainly reflecting the effect of consolidation of Hidrovias in the amount of BRL 64 million. We had an operating cash generation of BRL 1.848 billion, excluding the BRL 909 million from the reduction of the draft discount, a growth of 73% compared to the…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes by Gabriel Barra with Citi.

Gabriel Coelho Barra

Analyst

And I have 2 questions. The first one, I think you pointed out quite well in the release and Pizzinatto talked about the informal practice and the margins in the industry. Even though there has been an impact in terms of margin for you, we've seen some improvement. There is the single phase taxation, RenovaBio. We can see some significant improvement, solidarity, a number of things happening, good things for the industry. So I would like to hear more about the dynamic of margins. Is it within what you had expected, considering your inventory levels. I'd like to hear more about that and how you can see the margins considering all the different movements involving in formal practice and what we can expect from now on in terms of this change in the industry? Now Ultragaz, you've talked about regulation, which is something very important. The one side, we have the Brazilian petroleum agency discussing ANP. There is also a discussion about the law of gas to all but a lot has been said about LPG especially addressed by Petrobras. Considering competition in the industry, a lot has been said about having Petrobras back into the LPG industry. Maybe it's too early, but I would like to hear your opinion about that competition. You are doing quite well in terms of exchange of the bottles and so on. But if Petrobras came back into the market, what would you expect? And how are you getting prepared to a newcomer and a newcomer as big as Petrobras. And finally, in working capital and the draft discount you've mentioned, this is very much related with the discussion of IOF, the tax on financial operations. The idea was to exclude the draft discount or once there is a definition about IOF, do you think that there would be draft discount back again into your working capital. So what can we anticipate for the next quarter?

Leonardo Linden

Analyst

Good morning, Gabriel. This is Linden speaking. You have a number of questions, so different people will answer them. In terms of regulation, you've got it right. Yes, there are very important movements going on. I think we should highlight the 3 main ones. First, the single-phase taxation pointed out by Rodrigo. The single-phase taxation has a practical effect, which is negative at first because we deteriorate the margins. But then it gets picked up with time. And we see it as positive, positive effect. Then the CBIO's of the 3 elements that I'm going to mention, the one that makes me more frustrated is exactly that. It's been a very good movement, trying to get visibility to all of those who are not complying with the program, but there are injunctions, opening junctions that still have to be analyzed. It's no sense having an operator in activity for 3 or 4 years, never complying with the rules of the program. So it makes no sense, right? This is something that we still need more visibility to understand how it's going to be concluded. And finally, solidarity, and I agree. I think that this is a very important thing. We are talking about BRL 210 million of tax debt included to those solidary responsible parties. I hope it can go into other states because only by doing that, we can start inhibiting the tax evasion I can see the effects overall has been positive. In terms of margin, I think it's too early. It's too early to anticipate or to imagine what the impact would be. Initiatives are positive. So we expect that to bring positive effects as well in the future.

Tabajara Bertelli

Analyst

Gabriel, Tabajara speaking. Thank you for the question. The information that we've heard in the market. We still do not have many details we can just make hypothesis, right? Petrobras coming into the market. Petrobras is a top quality player. It has already operated in this industry in the past, responsible for consolidating the regulation market, focused on safety. So it would be instrumental to support the consolidation of regulation that we have. It's a company that would really come into the market and really play by the rules. It's a player that could come in the market and support everything that is ongoing. We wouldn't see any changes in terms of the near future. The information that we have is very similar to what you mentioned. We don't have any further details.

Alexandre Mendes Palhares

Management

This is Palhares speaking. Concerning the draft discount, you got it straight the discussion of the tax on financial operations IOF was the trigger. We have access to long-term funding lines at very competitive rates. We decide to use it to avoid the direct discount, and it's still a good tool to manage short-term working capital but at lower volumes, right? That's exactly it.

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

Thank you, Gabriel. I would like to emphasize something that Linden pointed out. The solidarity of resellers in paying taxes in Sao Paulo. It's really a landmark the industry in Brazil. It hasn't gained as much attention as it deserves. But it's a transforming factor. It should serve as a role model to other states because it increases a tax collection and it favors taxpayers, such as us, right? I would like to emphasize this point because this is really a turning point in the regulation and inspection in Brazil.

Operator

Operator

Next question comes by Vicente Falanga with Bradesco BBI.

Vicente Falanga Neto

Analyst

Good morning, Linden, the team. I'd like to go back to IR of LPG. Tell us about the exchange of information you have had with the ANP. We've read the document. We don't think it's very clarifying or quantitative. In your presentation in two of the charts, you showed that may be things would not make that much sense. So what kind of exchange of information have you had? And when will you have opportunity to learn more maybe when there is an initial draft. What can we expect in terms of upcoming steps. And a follow-up on Linden's comment, it seems there is a legal effort to put an end to all the injunctions of the credits, the bio credits. Do you have any visibility, any anticipation of that?

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

Good morning Vicente. Concerning the regulations in LPG, I'm going to bring a point to the discussion, and then Tabajara can build up on it. In the prehearing level because there is also going to be a public hearing. But in the prehearing stage, 247 inputs were made out of which 244 were against the proposal of changes of fractioning and end of the branded product. And there's opposite position came from the national Commander of the firefighters the International Federation of workers in transportation and other organizations, all of them against fractioning and or the end of the branded bottles. Only 3 out of the 447 only 3 were in favor of that change, but by other organizations, which are not so representative.

Tabajara Bertelli

Analyst

Tabajara speaking. Rodrigo has given us an overview of what has happened. There has been a preconsultation a prehearing stage. We were very deep into our contribution and inputs, providing arguments, of course, we have just presented a summary to you today. There is a regulatory agenda in place and some of the points, which may be even positive such as release of use rather than restricted use. I mean, there are some positive things should it become into effect. But this is a discussion that is going to be on and on with further participation. And this is why we wanted to share that with you. If you want to get involved -- this is the time to do it. We are concerned. Of course, we want the regulation to move ahead, not to take back steps. And there are many steps still on schedule, and we are going to be part of this discussion. Vicente, concerning the legal effort, yes, there are a number of initiatives providing support and clarification. One of them is a request of the General Attorney's office of the government but still waiting for the analysis of the Supreme Court analysis. But we are here to support the process and to correct distortion as quickly as possible. We do whatever it takes.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Matheus Enfeldt with UBS.

Matheus Enfeldt

Analyst · UBS.

Robust results once again at Ultragaz. Capital allocation. One is your leverage target that would allow Ultra to start considering opportunities of investments at the holding level. The message is clear. Investments are being made at the level of subsidiaries. You've made some very good acquisitions in previous quarters. But thinking about something bigger, maybe as big as Hidrovias, maybe next year where your leverage would go back probably to 1.5. How are you anticipating that. When do you intend to revisit intensively these kind of investments. In terms of LPG margins, we've talked a lot about the continuity and robust results. But I would like to understand a -- to what extent can you think about other energies within that area or the levels that we've been talking about 3% to 5% of share of EBITDA from new energies. Should we still remain and work with this level? Or can we expect anything else?

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

Good morning, Matheus. Concerning leverage and considering the higher interest rates, we see leverage at a comfortable level between 1.5 and 2x over EBITDA. In the second half of the year, will be very positive in terms of cash flow. Probably by the end of the year, you're going to get to the level of leverage that we had in the end of 2024. Even with the investments made to complete our controlling position at Hidrovias, the buyback program and the consolidation of Hidrovias debt of BRL 3.1 billion in the quarter.

Tabajara Bertelli

Analyst · UBS.

Tabajara speaking. In terms of share from new energies, we are very much aligned with our plan. Everything that we've been referring to in previous quarters. We are still obtaining a lot in combining businesses of our clients, with biomethane, distributed generation, sales, a lot of things going on and very much aligned with the plan that we have developed. In this quarter, we captured efficiency and excellence in our operations of all the strategic initiatives that we have in the long term many of which combined and bringing results that helped us deliver the results for this quarter. Part of our Integration of the consortium was important, impacted our results. This is a continuous process. There has been no discontinuity in the short term projected, and we expect to see that evolution throughout time.

Operator

Operator

Next question comes by Eduardo Muniz with Santander.

Eduardo Muniz

Analyst

Great results. The first question is a follow-up on what we've heard. The strategy of reducing the direct discount exposure. Does it involve the gross profit of the company, especially Ipiranga? And what was the share for EBITDA margin by cubic meter in the second quarter? Second question concerns consolidation of Hidrovias. From now on, what can we expect in terms of initiative in terms of cost reduction, G&A and how that can impact the EBITDA of Ultrapar. These are my questions.

Alexandre Mendes Palhares

Management

Thank Eduardo for the question, Palhares speaking. The fact is not relevant. And we use it one-off throughout the quarter, nothing that would really change our perception. What was the second question again? Consolidation of Hidrovias. Should we expect cost reduction, G&A reduction and how that can impact Ultrapar's EBITDA.

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

Good morning. Rodrigo speaking. Concerning consolidation of Hidrovias, we've been doing that to allow a better correlation with the market and really focused on our ongoing plan and results of Hidrovias. And that's going to be addressed by the Hidrovias call. In terms of our controlling holder, Hidrovias has come from a process with better navigability and thanks to all the improvements in management, operations, cost reduction, and improvement of indebtedness level. So we expect the second half of the year, which is going to be much better than last year's. In further details, I would like to ask you to approach our Investor Relations team of Hidrovias.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Bruno Amorim with Goldman Sachs.

Bruno Amorim

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

I have a strategic question concerning Ipiranga and that agenda against informal practice is moving ahead. You always show us clearly the movement. And as the agenda moves ahead, the company's priority, what will it be? Increased return on investments, ROIC in more market share? What is the current ROIC of Ipiranga in your accounts. Do you think that you are at the right level or not? And I'm asking at the level because a major player has just said that it has been expecting margins at the current level. Just to understand, if you have the same perception right margin, great returns on investment, so competitive gains would be increased volumes from now on.

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

Bruno, yes, we expect better market because of improvement in the regulations. It doesn't change how we consider investments. Investments have to be selective, no matter what. As I've mentioned before, we always focus on investments that have a return of about 20%. It's not at this level yet. So we are not at the level we would like to be, of course, but our plans is, yes. If there is room to have a disciplined investment practice, we are going to look for opportunities as the market improves. And margins are part of that as well if the whole situation improves, margins and volumes equally improve. But we have to be absolutely sure that the regulatory issues are really progressing.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Bruno Montanari with Morgan Stanley.

Bruno Montanari

Analyst · Morgan Stanley.

I have 2. First, about Ultracargo, could you please tell us more about mid- and long-term perspective concerning the increase of sold cubic meters and some update on your expansion projects. And secondly, capital allocation. Once you reach your target leverage, how would you consider getting into a new business or increasing the distribution of dividends? And what would be the minimum return rate that you would consider to go into a new business line. Well, maybe expand some of our business in some of your business in a more robust fashion.

Fulvius Tomelin

Analyst · Morgan Stanley.

So thank you, Bruno. This is Fulvius speaking. Brazil is an important country. So we have continuous demand we justify our constant investments. In this year, we started the operations in Palmeirante, and we have in our pipeline, the expansion of Santos and Rondonopolis both of them come into their conclusion. The expansions are going through a maturation process with expectations of reaching EBITDA per cubic meter similar to other terminals as of 2026. We just need some maturation for the expansions of Ultracargo.

Rodrigo de Almeida Pizzinatto

Management

Good morning, Bruno, Rodrigo, speaking. Concerning target leverage once we get close to our expected level we are going to consider both options, whether it's worth investing again to expand existing business or to go into a new business and the return rate will be adjusted by risk. Also what we do. Sometimes we have a return rate which is lower, and that's what we want to work with. If there are no projects then we increased the dividend payout. There is no previous decision already made. Things are decided as the reality changes.

Operator

Operator

Our question-and-answer session is concluded. Now I would like to hand it over to Alexandre Palhares for his closing remarks.

Alexandre Mendes Palhares

Management

Well, let me thank you very much for your time and your participation. Let me remind you that on September 19, we are going to have the Ultra Day. We are highly excited to welcome you all there. We're going to talk about our strategy and give you more details about our businesses. We are here at your availability. Our Investor Relations team is here to support you. Thank you all very much for your participation.

Operator

Operator

Thank you for your time and interest. Let me remind you that the next meeting will be on September 19 at Ultra Day. During the event, we are going to share our strategic view and more details about our businesses. We count on your participation. The Investor Relations team is at your disposal for any follow-up and for questions which may come up. Thank you all very much. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]