Earnings Labs

Energy Fuels Inc. (UUUU)

Q3 2024 Earnings Call· Fri, Nov 1, 2024

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning. My name is Yna, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Energy Fuels Third Quarter 2024 Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session where you will be able to ask one question and one follow-up question should you desire. Thank you. Mr. Chalmers, you may begin your conference.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Thank you very much. And, again, Mark Chalmers. I'm President and CEO of Energy Fuels, and thank you for joining this conference call today. I can say with absolute confidence that momentum is growing for our company quicker than ever before on three fronts. Iranian production ramp-up, three mines are operating, and more are planned. We have achieved commercial separation. Our phase one plant and our expansion projects are advancing. The heavy mineral sands and the closing of base resources on October 2nd. The moving forward of the Donald joint venture FID decision and exploration at the Bahia. And on top of that, we have the isotopes. It really is an exciting time for Energy Fuels. I will go through a presentation as I normally do on the progress in more detail shortly. The conference call will have replays available on the website later today or tomorrow, so people can refer to that if they are not able to attend this call. At this point in time, as always, at the end of the presentation, as Yna said, there will be time for questions. I have Nate Bennett, our Interim CFO and Chief Accounting Officer, and Dave Friedland, our Senior VP and Chief Legal Officer, who will also be available to answer any questions that I am not able to do so. So let's get going. Certainly, this first slide, and I always say I love this slide because it's in close proximity to the White Mesa Mill in San Juan County. Really, the title "Clean Energy Starts with Us."

Operator

Operator

And I always say on steroids because that has not changed.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Next slide. I may be making some forward-looking statements, and those are included on this slide two in the presentation. Next slide. Again, many of you have seen this slide, but really, we're building a business around our ability to process uranium, and that is really our advantage that we have that nobody really has out there, with the exception of perhaps the Chinese. Our why is really the ability to contain naturally occurring radioactive materials. So when you look at uranium, if we're mining some of our uranium vanadium projects, again, the comment on Nader is uranium. The rare earth elements contain uranium and other radionuclides. Heavy mineral sands have a long history of having radionuclides with monazite, the uranium recycling, and medical isotopes. All built on a very strong financial strength. So again, this is playing to our strengths here. Not having the ability and the knowledge and the licenses and the permits to recover uranium and deal with the radionuclides is our secret weapon. Yeah. Next slide.

Mark Chalmers

Management

So look at the company, several high-value product lines, uranium, and I said this many times, we produced two-thirds of uranium since about 2017. We're ramping up these three existing mines to a run rate of about 1.1 to 1.4 million pounds by the end of this year, and we will achieve that. The rare earths, and most of you are very aware of the requirements. They are for the most powerful magnets required for vehicles, wind, and other technologies. We successfully commissioned our phase one separation plant, and it has the capability up to a thousand tons per annum, which is equivalent to about one million electric vehicles. The heavy mineral sands, I'll talk more on that. The addition of that is very exciting to us, really focused on the titanium and zirconium elements, but also the material amounts of monazite that come with the heavy mineral sands securing our sources of molecules going forward. Vanadium, and we don't get a lot of airtime on that currently because the price of vanadium is down, but we have the only conventional vanadium plant in North America that can also restart in due course when prices are higher. In our recycling, which is really something that we built the company around over years. That is still there, and we're currently recycling uranium ores as we speak. Built on the financial strength at quarter close, we had $183 million US of working capital. Most of that is in cash and marketable securities and large inventories of uranium and vanadium. Next slide. So what we have here, and this is what's extraordinary and unusual, we have three businesses in one. We have a US leading uranium company, and we have been the US leading uranium company for decades. And then you have a…

Mark Chalmers

Management

So the big news in October was the closing of the transaction acquisition of base resources on October 2nd. We had a separate conference call in that regard a few weeks ago. We're just so excited about that because we think it is the foundation of being a company maker with these other parts of our business strategy. Base has now become Fuels. They have a very experienced management that is proven in the heavy mineral sand business, and that comes with this combination. Which, again, we think gives extraordinary momentum and expertise there. They have an exceptional track record on safety, environmental stewardship, and profitability. So with that also comes 100% ownership of the Tolyar project in Madagascar. Which we believe is one of the best heavy mineral sand deposits globally, and we also believe it is one of the biggest sources of monazite out there in the world, and I believe in due course, it has the ability to be one of the lowest-cost rare earth mines in the world. It is a massive resource that has the opportunity for further expansion. As I mentioned, it's both a titanium and zirconium project. Containing monazite and xenotime, which are the rare earths that will come along with the mining of that. We believe it also represents a source of monazite where effectively because the byproduct of the monazite, it comes along for free. That monazite xenotime that is produced will be processed at the White Mesa Mill facility in Utah. Next slide.

Mark Chalmers

Management

So look at this slide, and the blue is what we have had for years. When you look at the uranium assets that we have, we're headquartered in Denver. As many of you know, the White Mesa Mill in Utah, and these are all assets that we've managed for decades. So we have the team in place here in Denver to manage those assets like we have for years. Now the southern hemisphere with the head office in Perth, with base taking the management of the heavy mineral sands, which they've been doing for the last decade plus. Certainly, they have the Tolyar project that we believe is advancing in a very positive way with the Madagascar government. There's still we don't have an exact date. We can provide, but we still believe we're in a good position there. But also managing the final days of the Qualia project in Kenya. Also, the base team is already doing work and participating with the Donald joint venture in Victoria, Australia. We're moving towards the FID decision, and they are also weighing in on the exploration at the Bahia project in the southern hemisphere or in Brazil. So again, the point I want to make, if people think we're overstretching ourselves, we already have the history of managing the blue and the northern hemisphere, which is really the hydrometallurgy and the uranium projects and the rare earth value add of processing in the southern hemisphere. The physical metallurgy is being managed by base with their long history. This is where it is a unique combination. That's where it is so complementary to our plans going forward. Next slide. So this is a real interesting slide, and Tim Carson from Base put this slide together, and I really like it. It shows how…

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to cancel the request, please press star followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. Thank you. That is star and one to ask a question. Just a reminder, questions be limited to one question and one follow-up. Your first question comes from the line of Heiko Ihle from H. C. Wainwright. Please go ahead.

Heiko Ihle

Analyst

Hey there. Can you guys hear me okay?

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah, Heiko. We got you.

Heiko Ihle

Analyst

Cool. Thanks for taking my questions, and congratulations on getting this very transformational deal done. Speaking of, tomorrow, it'll officially be a month since you closed the base resources deal. For a decent amount of time for the teams to, you know, get to know each other, work out maybe minor kinks. In that process, have there been any surprises either positive or I assume nothing really negative, but anything positive surprise or negative that you encountered? Any efficiencies that you're encountering that maybe you didn't really expect?

Mark Chalmers

Management

No, Heiko. I think it's all going as scheduled. I mean, we've gotta get the teams together, and, you know, you've got two separate companies, and it always takes some time to blend that together. I was down at the close for about a week. We've got people going back and forth between both entities. So I don't think there's any surprises, but there's these opportunities. Like, for example, in Brisbane this week on the Donald project, we had a workshop where we had five people from base working with the technical experts from Astron and their consultants looking at all the assumptions being made in the FID process and design and recoveries and, you know, operability and all that. So we're putting people to work. I think that's the main thing is we're putting people to work between the two companies, but it is, you know, an integration is an integration, and what I tell people is, you know, we have two teams here that are very proud of what they do and how they do it. That is a great thing. That's a great thing. So we've got people that want to make things happen. Both organizations are doer-focused. Doer-focused, focused on profitability, focused on accomplishing significant things.

Heiko Ihle

Analyst

Fair enough. Good answer. Okay. Building on something that came up earlier on this call, you mentioned that you sold 150,000 pounds at I think you said $91 in the spot market this year. Just following up on that, the long-term contracts with utilities that you're currently not even necessarily yours, but just in general. The long-term contracts that you're seeing with utilities that are getting done, have there been any changes related to pricing at the duration versus where we would have been, call it, twelve months ago?

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. I think the utilities are starting to understand that the market isn't gonna retreat back to $30, $40, and so if you go back to there was kind of a couple cycles, like, when you had the Russian Ukraine conflict, there was a flurry of contracts that were done, you know, a month or two after that. Those are generally speaking lower priced, and then as time has progressed and as uranium prices have gone up to $105 and $80 and stayed there, I think you're definitely seeing an increase in the floors and the ceilings. Prices are going up. So I think that the utilities are accepting that the nuclear and the demand is growing. The focus on data centers, artificial intelligence is growing. The restarts of reactors around the world are growing, and I think they're getting a bit nervous because they see that. The thing about the uranium industry is it doesn't respond quickly. It's hard to get a project up. It's hard to get through the steps of integration in the nuclear fuel cycle through conversion and enrichment. So yeah, I think people are getting used to these higher contract prices, and that also creates an opportunity to force going forward.

Heiko Ihle

Analyst

Cool. I'll get back into you. Think I saw some of my questions here. Thanks for taking them, and I'll talk to you soon.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Thank you, Heiko.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Justin Chan from SEP Resource Finance. Please go ahead.

Justin Chan

Analyst

Hi, Mark. Great to talk to you.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. Thanks for taking the call. I guess my question is on your thoughts on your inventory and next year. You've got 800,000 pounds in various store inventories. I guess, what's your current thinking on production next year? On where we are with Spot? And maybe could you give us some color on the volumes and timing? Is there any constraints on timing through the year for your contract to drain in sales next year?

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. We haven't given formal guidance for next year yet, Justin. You know, as I said, between finished and work in progress, we've got about a million pounds, and ores showing up at the mill every day. I mean, you get to a point where, you know, you try to get in the equilibrium, like, if we process this, you know, in the order of a million pounds, and we're bringing more material in, it should reach an equilibrium or closer equilibrium in my mind in due course as we get the flywheel going. Our contracts that we have next year are towards the end of the year, and as I said, around 300,000 pounds total. So we're pretty wide open. But the contracts start ramping up the following years, Justin. We're gonna be looking at contracts, spot, uranium prices, try to maximize it. Kinda like what we did this year, you know, where we sold 250 in spot, 200 under contract. But we're focusing on ramping it up to that a couple hundred couple million pounds per year probably the following year or two, you know, 2026-ish, 2027-ish, somewhere in there. But we should be, I believe we're gonna be pushing well north of one to two, you know, well, we always said we're gonna be doing that by the end of the year. But, yeah, I don't wanna give guidance yet. We'll get back to the market in due course.

Justin Chan

Analyst

Gotcha. No. Thanks. That's helpful color. And maybe just a bit more as a follow-up on mill activities for next year, as you're thinking a bit. So, I mean, will most of the year be uranium? Will you have any more monazite to run a rare earth campaign? And then just trying to get a sense of how you think about the calendar year. Like, will uranium processing start kind of early in the year? Will it switch between rare earth and uranium? I realize that you don't have guidance. I'm just trying to get a sense of what maybe you're thinking.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. The focus next year is gonna be on uranium production. You know, at this moment, the only monazite we get is from Chemours. Monazite is coming from Chemours right now. I mean, we've got it showing up, just stockpiling it, you know, and that's the unique thing that we have here is we got this big facility. We've got uranium ores in from different mines, different alternate feed, and then we've got monazite. So the focus will be on uranium. We don't have any current plans to go back into processing the monazite. That could change. Depending on what we secure, and so when you look at when we go back into processing a monazite at a larger scale, I mean, kinda be thinking towards, like, 2027, but there could be a run-in between. Depending on, you know, how much uranium ore we have to process versus how much monazite we have to process.

Justin Chan

Analyst

Gotcha. Okay. Thanks, Mark. That's really helpful. I'm sure we'll follow up at some point after this call. Thanks very much. I'll see you at the line.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Thank you, Justin.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Joseph Reagor from Roth Capital Partners. Please go ahead.

Joseph Reagor

Analyst

Hey, Mark and team. Thanks for taking my questions. I think most of the things were already touched on, but just more quick items. One on ongoing negotiations with the Navajo Nations. At what point would you guys consider an alternative shipping solution here?

Mark Chalmers

Management

Really, we think that we're gonna get there with the existing shipping, you know, highways and whatnot. So yeah. I mean, right now, we're very encouraged with how these discussions are going. A big part of it has been education, making them comfortable, and so we think we're gonna get there. As I said, we're looking at something holistic that's a win-win for both groups. We're looking at the cleanup, which is really exciting for, I mean, I think tying sort of there's a tie between those. But it'd be a great outcome. It'd be a really, really good outcome. What's interesting too on this whole these negotiations and stuff is very little cleanup has been able to happen on the reservation. Because it didn't have a way to deal with the cleanup. We give an outlet to the Navajo Nation, which we think is very powerful. For them. So, you know, watch this space. But, you know, I don't want people to be fearful that we're not gonna get there because I really do think that people in the room talking are trying to get there.

Joseph Reagor

Analyst

Okay. Fair enough. And then last thing, just a housekeeping item. Post the special dividend to the base resource shareholders. How much cash did you guys get in the acquisition?

Mark Chalmers

Management

Let me ask what do we got? As far as cash goes, it you know, so they So Belkin Space will continue to operate the quality line, and that'll wrap up here at the end of 2024. So they're using the cash that they have plus the revenue that they're gonna sell fourth quarter which should be around $40 to $45 million in the fourth quarter. So all of that cash and operations is gonna be used to wrap up the production in the fourth quarter and then also to perform the reclamation off on for the quality mine. So all that stays within days the cash that they had to finish up operations in the reclamation liability. So we didn't actually transfer any cash or move any cash to Energy Fuels. Clarifies your question.

Joseph Reagor

Analyst

Okay. Just quick follow-up to that. So will you guys book that revenue? On your income statement then, since the transaction closed during the quarter?

Mark Chalmers

Management

That is correct. So we will you will see the fourth quarter of base resources consolidated into our Energy Fuels financial statements that we'll file at year-end. That'll include just the fourth quarter and include that revenue that you'll see from base in the fourth quarter.

Joseph Reagor

Analyst

Okay.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Thanks. I'll turn it over.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Noel Parks from Thulebrodt Investments Research. Please go ahead.

Noel Parks

Analyst

Hi. Good afternoon. Just wanted to ask about the White Mill pre-feasibility study, there was a mention in the queue that that was being looked at just for expansion of the output capacity. Please talk about what's involved in that and if you have any sense of time frame, that'd be great.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. Well, we did this pre-feasibility study a year or so ago that was looking at around three thousand tons of NDPR processing capacity previously. That was before we had the base transaction and whatnot. So because of the successes that we've had with gathering these significant projects that have the ability if they're developed to these larger quantities, we're going to this larger scale. We're currently working with a couple of engineering companies trying to advance the engineering companies to help us with those feasibility studies to get to that six thousand tons. We were having discussions with right now there's been a lot of work done. We have a huge amount of data because of what we've done in the laboratory, what we've done with this phase one, commercial operation. So, I mean, I believe we'll have a feasibility study in the middle of 2025. With this phase two in hand. That's the goal. Once we get that in hand and get the flow sheets and whatnot, we're gonna advance the permitting with the state of Utah. They're expecting it. This is gonna be coming. So assume it takes us the middle of the year to finish up the engineering feasibility work, start going right into permitting, to get the permitting so in that 2027, 2028 time period, when you start seeing material quantities of monazite heavy mineral sands from these projects that we've acquired, the timing aligns quite well. Now the one thing that I can say is that because we do have the phase one plant constructed, that we do have the ability if we have monazite sooner than that, we can process that. We can shift the mill back into rare earth mode and process that. So, you know, it's not very often that you have a uranium plant, a phase one plant, a phase two plant that's work in progress and have that flexibility. So, you know, we're in a unique position there. To be flexible.

Noel Parks

Analyst

Hey. Thanks for going ahead.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Once again, should you have a question, please press star then the number one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from the line of Michael Zack from Cantor Fitzgerald. Please go ahead.

Michael Zack

Analyst

Yeah. Good afternoon, Mark and team. Just one question for me. That new contract that you signed in the quarter with the U.S. Utility, where did the floors and ceilings print on that? And if you can't give me the exact price to the dollar, I understand. I don't wanna get you in trouble. Maybe if you could round it to the nearest five dollars per pound, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Mark Chalmers

Management

I don't know if I can round it. There's five dollars a pound. My CFO was shaking his head, and I think my lawyer is too. So yeah. Look. The contract and this is a unique one for us that we have the ability to do contracts that others are not able to. A lot of these companies that are starting up, they need like a six, eight-year contract because they're trying to get their project financing and the this fourth contract that we signed, it's got a like a two-year term and then an option to extend for two years. So it's a two plus two to four. It gives them the ability to kind of put that out another two years if they want to. But definitely, the floors are increasing. The ceilings are increasing. Mike, I think, you know, you talking to other uranium producers or uranium wannabes producers, they'll confirm that. But, you know, the utilities tell us not to give out those financial terms, and so we can't. So there is a trend of increasing floors and increasing ceilings, but we have unique flexibility in that we're not having to go out and raise or fund a five hundred or billion-dollar project, and we can do, you know, two-year, three-year, four-year, whatever. It isn't tied to financing. But it is very encouraging. We like this new contract we have. Curtis was in Kansas City at this last conference, and he says utilities are out there. They're out there, and they're looking at needing more product. So I believe the trend's gonna continue, Mike.

Michael Zack

Analyst

I appreciate that color. Maybe and I totally understand not being able to provide the dollar amounts. Maybe if I could follow-up though. Would you characterize your material versus other contracts that you're hearing that are being signed? You characterize your materials getting a premium or in line? With the contract terms more recently.

Mark Chalmers

Management

I think they're very attractive for our circumstances. That's fair enough. We're not being penalized. Let's put it that way. Okay. We're not being penalized because we signed the contract. I think they're very attractive to us as a company. And how we can fit that into our production profile.

Michael Zack

Analyst

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Erin Vanekana from CU Boulder. Please go ahead.

Erin Vanekana

Analyst

Hi, Mark. Appreciate you taking my question. And for all your time today. Couple quick questions on the rare earth side. So you mentioned that $29.88 per kilogram NDPR processing cost. I just wanted to clarify whether that was driven by the low-cost monazite procurement or that it will be driven further down by low-cost monazite procurement?

Mark Chalmers

Management

No. That's just kind of the cost of it. If you have a ton of monazite processes at the mill, it's around $30 per kilogram. The point is that if you take a project like Tulliar that supports itself without any credit for monazite. I mean, it generates cash. Their feasibility study said around $200 million of EBITDA over 38 years or something. Without any credit for monazite. Now, when you look at the PFS that they did on the addition of the rare earths and the monazite is very, very low strike rate to actually recover the monazite. So depending on how you account for it going forward, if the heavy mineral sand project is really able to carry the load and get monazite for free. And transport it to the mill, you can basically add that onto the $30. So if the monazite was actually free, delivered, you could say $30 plus zero if you have to pay for the shipping, you know, there's different ways you get there, but I think the bottom line is we believe that our strategy with having the molecules in place and having heavy mineral sand projects that stand on their own without any rare earth credit. This is where it is a police for a great outcome. Do you have, you know, ten dollars or twenty or nothing on the thirty bucks? Okay. So, you know, each project will be different. As we get these projects advanced, we update our studies and have the ability to disclose this, we'll disclose the market in due course.

Erin Vanekana

Analyst

Gotcha. Gotcha. Appreciate that, Mark. And then just looking down the timeline for the phase two and three, for air separation plants. Just wondering why what goes into the decision to produce NDPR versus separating those two output further. Is that just due to the economics of like, the price delta between separated ND and separated PR versus NDPR together? And then also just wondering if you could provide like, any type of scale on how much building those phase two and three plants will take compared to the $19 million for phase one.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. I think, you know, whether we split out and separate to ND and PR separate. I don't have my mill guy here, but I think the ratio is about 75-25 or something. It seems to be adequate for most of these metals, alloys, and magnet manufacturers, the current ratio. Could they split them out? I think they can. But right now, we're trying to just keep them together. As I said, we're doing the piloting on the phase three, which is the DY and the TB as we speak. So, you know, I'd have to talk to him about what it would take to split them out separately. But the ratios are, we believe, adequate for the market. When you look at the capital cost, we don't have those numbers revised. Now the fact that we are able to build phase one for $19 million, we built it in the existing solvent extraction building, so we didn't have to build a new building. We did put a roof on it, and that's included in the cost, I think. So we got a new roof on top of the SaaSX building. We were able to do it because we used existing infrastructure. Now looking to the future, and I don't have the feasibility. The pre-feasibility on the three thousand was, like, $350 million. Is that what it was? So, certainly, if we double it, it's gonna be larger than that. But I think there's also things that, you know, you saw what we could do with phase one plan. We've got some real creative people. Deb, you do. Okay. She says that the magnet measures by an NDPR oxide, but not the individual PR NDPR oxide. Okay. There you go. Our people are messaging in as we speak on the NDPR question. So we don't have a number, but, you know, I think something north of $350, $500-ish. I don't know. I don't wanna be tied down to a number. But we've gotta get the engineering complete. The other thing I wanna point out though is when you look at the cost of doing business in Utah, compared to places like Western Australia, you know, we're at a real advantage here because we get water for effectively free. We got good sources of water. Power costs are low. Labor costs, great work ethic. Not fly in, fly out. Lesser social costs in some of these other jurisdictions. We'll be at a strike rate, we'll be far less than people like Lynas and Luca when it comes to building the plant. So, you know, we're not expecting a two billion dollars plant here. Like some of the others.

Erin Vanekana

Analyst

Great. Yeah. And then congratulations on the $19 million phase one. It's really impressive. Really appreciate your time today, Mark.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Okay. Yeah. I've seen I won't mention companies, but I know one company is building a pilot plant for $50 million. It won't be a commercial plant, a pilot plant. To do the same thing.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Puneet Singh from Eight Capital. Please go ahead.

Puneet Singh

Analyst

Hey, Mark. Just had a question on conventional versus ISR. I know you're prepping the Nichols Ranch ISR, but some of the US peers have been struggling with ISRs. Just talk to us about the advantage and disadvantage of each technique from an operational perspective because I know you're pushing the conventional assets first. Just wanna understand how that could be a strategic advantage for you. Then I know you mentioned some of the people at site. Maybe just talk to us about how you've been able to fill the labor needed for each asset because that's something that's always talked about for US production as well. Thanks.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. Yeah, Puneet. As you know, I've got experience with both. A lot of people don't. Okay? You get the ISR miners if that's all they've done. You get the conventional miners, that's all they've done. So I've done both, and there are advantages to both. Okay. One of the advantages of conventional that gets, I think, underappreciated by the ISR folks is that with the conventional, I can go mine a ton of ore. Then I can mine it and I can either not mine it or I can ship it out and put it at the mine on stockpile. I can ship it to the mill and put it in stockpile. Then I can process it, but I can stop it at any place. I can stop a conventional mine today. If I said stop the mines, I can stop it right now. And they stop. That's an advantage. It's an advantage because you're not having to be all in for five or ten years in a cycle to produce a pound of uranium. People don't appreciate that advantage. That is one of the reasons we started up our conventional projects. It's not just the only reason because we see the Pinion Plain Mine, this high-grade mine is very, very cost-effective. We also have the ability to start and stop, as I said. When you do ISR, you have to put in the well fields, and you have to extract the uranium. Takes two to three years to get the uranium out. Now you're looking at three, four years, and you don't get uranium out if you don't keep going. Okay? Then you have to restore those aquifers, and that can take a long time. I won't extrapolate there, but it can take a very long time. So…

Puneet Singh

Analyst

Yeah. I know. Right? As you're reading, Alex. I just wanted to see the advantage because you're everybody else doing ISR. Right? You're doing conventional starts, I think. You do have an advantage yourself there, but labor's just been hard all around. So had to ask questions. Yeah. Thanks.

Mark Chalmers

Management

But there are real advantages depending on which method is selected and what environment is selected. There are people that say ISR is the only way to mine, and it's conventional is also a good, you know, and proven methodology. In a lot of cases, it's the only methodology to be used. In our cases, like Pinion Plain, you're not gonna ISR Pinion Plain. You're gonna mine it conventionally. Cameco is conventional. Olympic Dam is conventional.

Puneet Singh

Analyst

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Thanks, Mark.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Once again, should you have a question, please press star then the number one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from the line of Dave McCosland. Please go ahead.

Dave McCosland

Analyst

Oh, hey. Thank you very much. Boy, I've got about eight questions, but I wanna concentrate because I was an investor about six years ago with Lynas, and I gave up because of Malaysia issues and stuff like that. But when you got involved with Bahia, I said, oh my god. This is so great. You know, we really need RE production here in the United States. To get us away from relying on China for permanent magnets. In any case, so it's a huge step. Gonna take a lot of money. It's gonna take and you're around the world involved in it. But when I started looking at your news, you were involved with a company called NanoPowders. All their scientists came from Cabot Corp. Associated with your pre-getting, before you got actually into extracting MBPR out of Monazite, how important has their contribution been to what you're doing there? Kinda sounds like you're a more conventional acid leach still. I mean, it sounded like from the news release that the technology that they were trying to develop for you would be your technology and you would control it by giving you a competitive advantage. If not, you can possibly even sell it to other people because with face it. Breaking down something that's so permanent like Monazite, Mother Nature's been trying to break it down for millions of years, and it's kinda what's left. You know, and getting particular atoms out of it. It's not like getting jelly beans out of a can of sugar. So where did the NanoPowders deal fit in? Or is it behind you? Because I think you spent a decent amount of money on it.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Well, there's a couple of things. There's Neo for we started working with early on when we announced we're getting the rare earth business in 2020. That was where we made a carbonate. We shipped it to Estonia back in the days, Constantine was CEO, and yeah, we still have a relationship with Neo and we look at what the opportunities are in the future. But NanoScale Powders, that was kind of an R&D initiative that we explored that, you know, we didn't go forward with. We still have some issues of what actually, one of the guys that was involved with NanoScale Powders has passed away, but so there's the Neo relay.

Dave McCosland

Analyst

No. That answers my question. That answers my question. I thought yeah. I thought maybe what was going on at Whitemill was, you know, somewhat secret because you had keys to unlock Monazite that other people didn't have. Okay? But it always sounds like that's the case.

Mark Chalmers

Management

The case we have is that we can process this at White Mesa Mill. We can recover the rare earth and uranium. We can deal with the radionuclides. We have the tailings facilities. You said you were an early investor in Lynas. Now Lynas also mines monazite, but it's not monazite sand. It's hard rock monazite. They've had significant problems with the Malaysian government on the residuals. I don't know where that is at this point in time. But that's one of the reasons they did a crack and leach facility in Kalgoorlie, Western Australia. Which was a challenge for them because of the cost. Of building a facility and the availability of water and acid and people. And all that. Processing Monazite for us is not a big issue at all because we want more radioactivity like uranium because we can monetize it. It's about the same grade as our mines like LaSalle or Pandora. That's an attribute that we welcome to be able to recover that uranium.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Justin Chan from SEP Resource Finance. Please go ahead.

Justin Chan

Analyst

Hi, Mark. Hopefully, I'm not breaking the rules too badly with a second question here. Just I saw in the quarterly, there's some commentary on Bahia, and I think it's a seven to ten thousand tons of Monazite. Which sounds like, you know, a lot of the kind of the scoping work you've done starting to define what the project looks like. I was wondering if you could give us more color on the work you've done and how the project's shaping up.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. I'm just going back and see what I did say here. We had but, well, Bahia, we said three to five, and then we said Donald is up to seven in phase one. Okay. So you wanted me to talk about Bahia then?

Justin Chan

Analyst

Yeah. Yeah. Just I mean, I think I could be wrong, but it was the first time I've seen kind of numbers put around scale there.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Well, I'm looking at page nineteen in the presentation. It's three to five. But the Bahia project, we bought a Sonic drill rig. We're using that right now. We've got a large land position there. We hired a country manager that was ex-Rio Tinto. Brazilian, and we've got, I don't know, ten employees down in Brazil. We've also had support from BASE go to Brazil looking at the exploration program. We're also advancing towards the permits for putting that project into place, doing a lot of the studies that are required for that. It is still early stages. We've gotta get your resource, and we're focused on getting to a resource in 2025. Also getting, as I said, support from base with their expertise in that regard. It's moving forward at a significant pace. But its earlier stages are than like the Donald project and the Tolliar project. They have more data, more study, more feasibility work, more permits. So, I mean, Donald project is effectively permitted. So, yeah, there are three different animals. Let's leave it at that.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. No further questions at this time. I will now hand the call back to Mr. Mark Chalmers, for any closing remarks.

Mark Chalmers

Management

Yeah. Thank you. My closing comments are that was a lot of questions, and that's good. Happy to get that kind of interest in what we're doing. What we're doing is different than others. I think that people are starting to understand the significance of what we're doing. We're playing a long game here, not a short game. We're building a company for the future. That company, we are focused on being, as I said, world-significant, low-cost, with these multiple elements. We are proud of that. We're driving our bus, and we believe that the focus that we're taking, we think that as this becomes clear to investors, that gives us an opportunity for further rerates in the stock and appreciation for the strategy. So appreciate our current shareholders, I look forward to new shareholders, and I look forward to giving more updates in due course, which I'm really excited and looking forward to doing. I just got a lot of work to do, and we're gonna keep focused on that. Look forward to our future updates. Thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

Thank you for participating in the Energy Fuels conference call. Please reach out to the company directly for any additional investment questions. You may now disconnect.