Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Verisk Fourth Quarter 2021 Earnings Results Conference Call. This call is being recorded. Currently, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After today’s prepared remarks, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] For opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the call over to Verisk's Head of Investor Relations, Ms. Stacey Brodbar. Ms. Brodbar, please go ahead.

Thank you, Ram, and good day, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today for a discussion of our fourth quarter and full year 2021 financial results. Today's call will be led by Scott Stephenson, Verisk's Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Lee Shavel, Chief Financial Officer and Group President; and Mark Anquillare, Chief Operating Officer and Group President. The earnings release referenced on this call as well as the associated 10-K can be found in the Investors section of our website, verisk.com. The earnings release has also been attached to an 8-K that we have furnished to the SEC. A replay of this call will be available for 30 days and on our website and by dial-in. Finally, as set forth in more detail in today's earnings release, I will remind everyone that today's call may include forward-looking statements about our future performance, including but not limited to, the potential impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. Actual performance could differ materially from what is suggested by our comments today. Information about the factors that could affect future performance is contained in our recent SEC filings. And now I'd like to turn the call over to Scott.

Thanks, Stacey. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our fourth quarter 2021 earnings conference call. Before we discuss the company's performance, I want to first reflect on the recently announced leadership succession plan. After 21 years at Verisk, I will be retiring as CEO following our Annual Meeting of Shareholders, and I'm pleased that Lee Shavel will succeed me as CEO; and Mark Anquillare as President. It has been an honor and privilege to lead Verisk through critical and transformative periods for our company and the industries we serve. With a dynamic executive team, deep bench of talent, strong balance sheet, collaborative culture, a modernized technical environment and leading-edge analytic and software platforms in place, this is the right time to begin the transition to Verisk's next CEO. I have every confidence that under Lee and Mark's steady leadership, the team will continue to empower a better, more resilient and sustainable tomorrow for customers and the world. I'd like to personally thank all 9,000-plus Verisk teammates for their passion and dedication to always being innovative, for their underlying commitment to our customers and for conducting business each and every day with the utmost integrity. I know the Verisk I will be leaving is more data rich, more modern and more integrated with our customers and the future is very bright. Most of you know Lee quite well. Since joining Verisk in 2017, he has served as our Chief Financial Officer and has been a trusted partner who has sharpened our focus on the effective allocation of capital. In 2021, Lee became Group President of our Energy and Financial Services segments and successfully integrated the business for improved strategic and operating coordination and accelerated investment in the company's Energy data analytics platform. In addition, he's been actively…

Thank you, Scott. And on behalf of the entire team, let me thank you for your leadership and dedication to Verisk. You have driven the success of Verisk, broadened our horizons and provided a rare balance of leadership and humanity. It has been a privilege to work with you and learn from you over the past five years and I'm fortunate to know that I will have your support and counsel through this transition. I'm humbled to be named Verisk's next CEO and excited about our opportunities to build upon our track record of success and further strengthen the company ahead. I would like to thank the many shareholders, who have personally expressed their confidence in my leadership ahead. And it has been a pleasure to get to know so many of you over the past five years, understand your perspectives and take your input. I look forward to building on this dialogue going forward. Before we discuss the financial results, I would like to bring to everyone's attention that we have posted our traditional quarterly earnings presentation that is available on our website. For the fourth quarter of 2021, on a consolidated and GAAP basis, revenue grew 7.4% to $766 million. Net income attributable to Verisk decreased 19.5% to $142 million, while diluted GAAP earnings per share attributable to Verisk decreased 18.7% to $0.87 per share. Our GAAP results include a release of a $50 million litigation reserve previously taken for a patent suit with EagleView Technologies that has now been settled and a $134 million noncash impairment charge related to our Financial Services segment. Moving to our organic constant currency results, adjusted for nonoperating items as defined in the non-GAAP financial measures section of our press release. We are very pleased with our operating results, led by continued…

Thank you, sir. [Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Toni Kaplan with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Great. Thank you. I was hoping, Lee, that you'd talk to us a little bit more about the rationale on why a spin is the right move for the Energy business. We're just not getting the price that you wanted. And maybe, also, I'll sneak another one in. Like, could you just talk about how you're viewing the growth priorities for the remaining Insurance business as well, just international, life or just other new products? Thanks so much. Thanks.

Yes. Thanks, Toni. So first, I want to be clear that what we're describing is an alternative. And so as we think about the strategic review that we've undertaken, it's clearly an option to think about a separately capitalized entity that enhances the independence, the agility, leverages -- that leverages the standalone brand value of the entity. So from our standpoint, given the momentum that we see within the businesses, as we talked about with the ACV growth in 2021, we want to make certain that we understand the mechanics, the timetable for that option. But we will continue to evaluate the market conditions and our ability to continue to contribute to the growth of that business overall. So to us, it's a natural and understandable alternative for us to consider in terms of overall value creation for the shareholders. I want to make it clear that all options are still on the table. We haven't ruled anything out. And we're, as we've described before, in the process of evaluating those but taking clear steps to be prepared for whichever alternative we think is the best from a value standpoint. On your second question with regard to overall growth priorities, yes, I would say that, firstly, the breadth of what we can address within the insurance industry, given the number of data sets, given the demands, is very broad. And I think we've demonstrated by identifying areas of growth under Mark and his team's leadership. In life, internationally, we've been able to tap into a wide range of new ways to acquire data sets. A part of what, I think, I would like to spend more time thinking about is really elevating the broader utility and industry-oriented mission of our Insurance business. We've done a great job focusing on the needs of our clients. And I think there are opportunities to think about what we can do on a broader industry basis, where we have additional leverage across our existing insurance clients and the functions that the insurance industry provides.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next one we have the line of Greg Peters with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. I guess, congratulations on your retirement, Scott.

Thanks, Greg.

And for my question, I guess, I'm going to focus on the CapEx guidance and your comments around CapEx, just looking for more color. So you said, I think, 9% of revenue in '21. If I look at your guidance and I just did some quick back-of-the-envelope math, it looks like CapEx for '22 could be growing faster if at the top end of the range than certainly organic revenue and if with the divestitures as a percentage of revenue is going to increase. So I guess, you've provided some comments, but if you could give us some more granular detail about what's going on there, that would be helpful.

Go ahead.

Thanks, Greg. This is Lee. So I think your observations are accurate and I think they reflect a couple of elements that are contributing to that. One is that as a function of a number of initiatives, most significantly Lens, but also some additional CapEx investment that we have made in the Insurance business that we anticipate making in 2022 as well as some CapEx related to the ongoing cloud transition. We have been able to take a lot of hardware and software out, but there are elements of investment that we made in that migration that will continue as we migrate more data sets onto the cloud. Along with the impact of a higher level of capital is capital intensity for our acquisitions. Those are still providing upward pressure on our CapEx as a percentage of revenue, as you've identified. However, one thing that we think is important to balance is that, at the core, those investments, particularly in the software-oriented aspect of capital investment, those are supporting substantial growth and return opportunities within the business. As I mentioned in the comments, our ability to invest in those platforms and broadly distribute them to our client base generates growth. We have seen that specifically with our Lens platform investment, which required a meaningful investment of capital which we were happy to do. And we've been able to observe, as a function of the value that, that has created for our client base, high single digits, even low double-digit pricing increases because of the value of that platform, as well as returns already on that investment at an early stage that are in excess of our cost of capital. So part of, I think, the tension that you've observed is that we do see opportunities to invest capital to support growth and higher returns. And as I said previously, when we're in that situation, we are going to prioritize growth and returns relative to overall capital intensity. And it is our expectation that there will be opportunities to bring that CapEx intensity down over time. But in the near-term, we still see very good growth and returns coming out of that. So hopefully, that gives you some context, in addition to the comments that we made earlier on what's driving that in 2021 and in 2022 with the guidance we provided.

It does. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question, we have the line of Hamzah Mazari with Jefferies. Your lines are open.

Hey, good morning. Thank you. Congrats on the new role and also congrats on the retirement. My question is just on -- just your go-to-market strategy. There'll be a lot of changes. You talked about Board level, corporate governance, portfolio changes. Could you also talk about whether you've looked at your go-to-market strategy and sales force incentives and maybe how that structure can also change or maybe it doesn't change? And if not, why? Maybe just talk about that. Thank you.

Sure. This is Mark. Let me focus a little bit on the insurance answer there. I think it really starts with our ability to interact most effectively with customers. And over the course of these last few years, I think we've been very pleased with both the level and the number of meetings we've had with executives. So people are very open to getting on a team's call, a virtual call. And we have seen that increase our NPS scores which are internal indications, certainly one of the many. We've seen higher and excellent retention rates. And probably, most importantly, we've seen the best of -- year of new sales that we've ever experienced, all of that driven by what I refer to as higher goals, higher expectations on our sales teams. But what we do is keep our targeted comp generally unchanged. So meaning, the rates or the commercial rates are generally and gradually going down as we achieve more. So I think we're pleased with our go-to-market. We're always looking to refine it. We are always looking to become more effective. And I think the focus right now has been the combination of let's put a team focused on our biggest clients. And we've done a wonderful job with all the insurtechs and newer players, where we've had a lot of new opportunities. So that is how we've, I'd say, adjusted over the last couple of years. Commercial versus commercial -- personal versus commercial focus, attention at the highest level and then attention on those new insurtechs. So always looking to improve but I think we've been quite effective. That's a good summary.

And also, I would add on the Energy side. One of the opportunities that we've been very directly engaged in is with the integration of our PowerAdvocate and Wood Mackenzie teams. It's given us an opportunity to think about how we take that core PowerAdvocate product and distribute that more effectively on a joint marketing and sales effort across it. And it's given us opportunity to think more broadly about what our go-to-market strategy is and how we approach that. So that's just on the Energy side, a specific example of our thinking around that topic.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next one, we have the line of Alex Kramm with UBS. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi, good morning, everyone. I want to come back to the earlier question from Toni, I guess, Lee, your new focus areas as you take over the company. I'm asking in particular in what this means for maybe the outlook in the medium term. And I'm asking because you see a lot of companies in the space recently capitalized on new growth initiatives and actually thought positioned themselves for a faster medium-term growth. So wondering, as you refocus the company on the insurance, as you have some maybe new growth opportunities, should we be thinking about maybe accelerated growth rates? Or is 7% still the right number to think about as you take, Lee, the lead here? Thanks.

Thank you, Alex. So keep in mind, with the announcement of less than a week ago and the focus on the two transactions that we announced recently, only started to define my objectives and how we think about growth. And they will continue to develop as I spend more time with the business and, most importantly, our clients. I'll start by saying that, at the quarter, as I think all of you can proceed to a phenomenally powerful engine, two, in fact, that I see powering the Verisk plane. One is that rapidly growing number of data sets that have relevance to our clients and industries. And the second is the growing demand and capacity of our clients to ingest and utilize the data. And the fuselage with Verisk in the 9,000 colleagues that we have here who passionately harness those two engines by allowing us to invest in that data and the analytics on behalf of the industries that we serve more efficiently than they could individually and allow us to create value for them, value for our shareholders. So that's really what supports our fundamental growth expectations for the business. The opportunity that I'm immediately focused on is how do we improve our operating leverage internally and externally to expand the lift of those engines: internally, by increasing the operational focus that is a natural extension of the discipline that we've deployed; and externally, by thinking more expansively about how we serve our industries to create value for them and leverage the industry's scale. I'm a big believer in simple wisdom. And I think Archimedes once said a couple of millennia ago that if you give me a big enough lever and a fulcrum to place it on, I can move the world. And we have a lot of compounding levers within Verisk and I'll be focused on bringing them to bear on our business and financial performance. And for the time being, we think that the long-term growth objectives that we have are reasonable growth objectives. Obviously, our objective is to try to improve against those. And I'm looking forward to your input and providing regular updates as we move forward.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you. The next one, we have Jeff Silber with BMO Capital Markets.

Thank you so much. I wanted to talk about margins. I think on your prior call, you talked about adding some expenses over the course of 2022, though you still expected margins to be above the pre-pandemic levels. I was wondering if you can give some color and if, possibly, you can quantify what the order of magnitude will be this year on those additional expenses. Thanks.

Sure. So that is something that we are anticipating. I think there are a couple pandemic-related expense items that we are managing. One is the T&E impact and the kind of the normalization of that. And that is a timing aspect of when do we begin to see travel return. The other that I think all companies are experiencing right now are the heightened level of inflation and impact on compensation expectations over time. So each of those are having an impact. We think that the T&E aspect will be gradual. It has had a -- in the fourth quarter, we began to see a little bit more of an impact. It was approximately a negative 50 basis point impact in the fourth quarter on the business -- I'm sorry, on the overall margin for it. We have only seen in 2021 a bit of an STI normalization impact but we'll probably experience a little bit more pressure on that ahead. I think as we think about the overall margin, you hopefully heard it in our comments with regard to the impact of the divestitures and the specific actions that we're taking to eliminate stranded costs, our expectation for 2022 is that we will be able to deliver increased EBITDA growth relative to revenue growth, implying an expectation that through the mix of those elements, the divestitures, the actions that we're taking and also taking into account some normalization of the T&E impact and increased compensation pressures, that we expect to deliver improvement in the margin in 2022.

Okay, very helpful. Thanks so much.

Thank you. Next, we have Andrew Steinerman with JPMorgan.

Hi, Lee, you could imagine I wanted to jump in a little bit more on that margin comment you just made about '22. Is that going to be margin expansion, let's just say, in the current portfolio? Or is that '22 margin expansion only on an organic basis when you exclude acquisitions that you recently made? And then the other question is, within the medium-term financial targets for the company is double-digit reported EPS growth and I wanted to know if that's also appropriate here for '22.

Yes. So Andrew, with regard to 2022, the margin expansion that I described which is a special case because of the structural changes that we are describing, I will say. And you can kind of appreciate that this is not our typical guidance, right, given kind of the structural dimension of it that we believe, based upon factoring all of those elements in the portfolio changes, the actions that we are taking, the impact of acquisitions as we know about at this point, that we do believe that we will be -- we are in a position to deliver margin improvement over that period. We also believe -- and I think this goes to your organic question. We believe that we will be able to more than offset the impact of stranded costs related to the two businesses that we are divesting. So that's our sense of where we are. There are a lot of variables that affect that but that's our expectation at this point. With regard to your question on EPS, we are not -- we still believe that the double-digit EPS objective is something that is achievable as part of our longer-term growth. But we also have to recognize that we will have an impact to EPS as a function of the two divestitures in the period. We don't think it's a significant one but it will certainly be a near-term impact on EPS for 2022. But the underlying dynamics of our expected revenue growth, EBITDA growth and then the management of our share base still positions us to be able to deliver on that double-digit EPS growth over time.

Okay, perfect. Thanks for taking the time.

Thank you. The next one, we have Jeff Meuler with Baird. Your lines are open.

Yes, thank you. Just given all the comments on the inflationary environment, wanted to also ask how you're managing from a pricing perspective, just given the high and growing value clients you're getting from your solutions? And given that I think you just took the annual pricing in ISO and some other solutions, so just how are you factoring in the expense base inflation into how you approach pricing?

So maybe I'll try to take that. What we have typically done is we have tried to value price all of our solutions. And to the extent that you think about the value that we provide as a kind of Verisk providing a platform or an analytic. We've typically entered into multiyear contracts. They're typically three years in duration. So as those come due, we're certainly going to try to push on a little bit more on the increase as it relates to kind of reconciling and talking about the people and the cost of labor. On another front, we have some of our deals that are somewhat tied to premiums. So in the world of a hardening insurance market, that could have some wind at our back over the course of the next year or two. So I would say to you, we are thoughtful about it. We're not aggressive about it. We're trying to make sure we maintain the long-term relationship with customers and that's what is in everyone's best interest.

Got it. And congrats to the three of you and best wishes, Scott. Thanks.

Thanks, Jeff.

Thank you. Next, we have Ashish Sabadra with RBC Capital.

Yes. Let me add my congrats as well to all three of you and best wishes to Scott. Just in terms of question, one quick clarification on the tax leakage on the Financial Services. I was just wondering if you provided the cost basis there and how should we think about the net proceeds versus the gross proceeds? And then maybe a quick question on the insurance. You mentioned some headwinds there in the quarter from a transactional side. But how do we think about the claim business going forward? Are these headwinds just one-off in the fourth quarter? And should we think about the claim business getting back to 7% in '22? Thanks.

Thanks, Ashish. So I'll take the first one and hand the second one over to Mark. From a proceeds standpoint, we -- for Financial Services, we're expecting essentially a very similar number to the headline number, slightly less for that. So not a lot of tax leakage on that specific transaction.

And I'll try to address the second topic. A couple of things happened in the quarter that we highlighted from a transactional perspective. First of all, our repair estimating business does benefit from what I'll refer to as some severe weather. Obviously, there's more instances where there is estimate needed to repair property. There was quite a bit of severe weather in the fourth quarter of 2020. It was a rather light and quiet 2021. And the second topic around transactional is in this world of COVID, there is fewer -- we are in a business that relates to workers' comp claims. And we help insurers quantify the cost that they will incur before Medicare picks up those costs. It's called Medicare Set-Aside. And there just have been fewer workers' comp claims in that space as people generally work from home and do the work kind of in a more remote or local setting. So we've seen those two instances on the transactional side of things. Thanks.

Thanks for the color. Thank you.

Thank you. The next one, we have George Tong with Goldman Sachs.

Hi, thanks. Good morning. I'd also like to add my congrats to Scott and Lee. So Verisk has announced divestitures of Financial Services and 3E as part of it's portfolio review. How motivated are you to divest the remaining Wood Mackenzie business in the Energy segment?

Hi, George, I think we've been pretty clear that we are looking very deeply at all possible ways of maximizing the value of this very strong business that we've got. We talked specifically about a pathway which would be to make it a free-standing company. That's receiving a great deal of attention right now. At the same time, we're accounting for the condition of the business. We're looking at the real-time progression of the performance of the business. We're looking at the state of the markets and we're looking at the macro environment. And at the intersection of all those things, we will make the ultimate and final decision about the very best way to make it the very best outcome for our shareholders. So very active, very deeply considered and ongoing.

And I would just add, our motivation is focused on what is the best value outcome for the business and for the shareholders, George.

Very helpful. You mentioned that EBITDA growth this year should outpace revenue growth after taking into account P&E, inflation, stranded costs, et cetera. How do you expect margins to perform moving through 2022?

So George, I would refer you back to our general guidance is that we expect, over the long term, for EBITDA to exceed our revenue growth given the operating leverage and feel as though we have demonstrated the underlying model that delivers on that. So that continues to be our expectation.

Thank you. Next, we have Andrew Nicholas with William Blair.

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I just wanted to ask about ESG. I think last week, you announced the launch of some sovereign ESG ratings via Maplecroft. And I was just kind of curious about that opportunity, if you could spend some time maybe talking about the size of that business. Any kind of internal targets for growth or size you can share? Bigger picture, just trying to get a sense for really how big this opportunity could be for your ESG assets specifically. Thank you.

Yes, it's -- thanks for the question. It's exciting. At the moment, we treat it really as an interesting extension of things that we already do. A lot of the strength that we have to offer and the insight that we can bring has developed out of the -- our participation in the vertical markets that we're in, beginning with insurance but also energy. There are important observations that come out of both of them. And so we are trying to render that information and additional information in a way that's useful to a broad set of customers, including insurers and energy companies but also corporates in other places. So it is -- in a sense, it's momentum out of what we already do but it's also kind of new business. And so the overall ultimate appetite of the world for ESG-oriented analytics is probably quite large but we are starting where we are and building out from there. We are -- there are established players in providing comprehensive ratings at the corporate level that we would have to think very carefully before we chose to move in that direction. But we can create a lot of indexed information that is really quite insightful and that's the path we're on right now. So it's a very good vector. It's a long march. The world will have a big appetite for ESG analytics and we will do the Verisk thing in serving that world.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you. Next we have Manav Patnaik with Barclays.

Thank you. Good morning. Congratulations to Lee, Mark and Scott. I just wanted to focus on the Insurance segment. A lot of good examples of new data set contributors, progress, et cetera, investments that you were referring to earlier. I think you also just rebranded the business as well. So just in the context of all of that going on, I just wanted to try and get a sense of in what time frame should we start seeing some of these investments start generating revenues that could be accretive to overall kind of that 7% growth you guys have talked about before?

So thanks for the question. I think we're pretty excited about the places that we are investing. We tried to highlight a little bit of the work that we're doing with life insurance and marketing. Those are clearly areas of investment. Also, we talked a little bit about just our core business which represents the ways we go to market and provide our customers with the cost of goods sold and the policy language that they're -- the insurance contracts. We're going to spend some time, hopefully, helping our customers better consume and take on our information in a more cost-effective and efficient way. So in my mind, we've been doing this for like five years or even more, probably 10. And we've been seeing those benefits over the last five in the form of a combination of top line growth which has accelerated and also in the form of customers much more appreciating the services and offerings we provide. So we continue to look very deeply at return on invested capital. We're very thoughtful about where and how we invest. We're kind of tied about that, if you ask our teams, as to how we go about this. So we try to prioritize these in a way that we think will both help our customers and, ultimately, help all stakeholders involved. So we'll continue what we're doing and, hopefully, we can even go faster. I'd say the theme is accelerating.

And Manav, thanks. We appreciate the question. And obviously, we're sorting through the impact of a number of the transactions that we've announced recently. And our hope is that, as that settles, we look forward to getting together with investors broadly and talking about all of the elements of growth within the business to give a clearer picture of what Verisk looks like ahead. But we're very excited about that future. As Mark described a couple of those opportunities, one of the ones that we've talked about a fair bit with investors is the investment that we've made in our LightSpeed platform, where we've been able to find a new way, new areas to assist our insurance clients. And it's a perfect example of how we've been able to develop an industry solution. And I think there are a broad range of opportunities that we're thinking about in addition to the investments that we're making in our core lines business to really expand and elevate the services that we provide to our customers there.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next one, we have the line of Kevin McVeigh with Credit Suisse.

Great. Thanks so much. And let me add my congratulations all around as well. I wonder, I guess, Lee or Scott, if you could give us some thoughts, it seems like the majority of the proceeds is going to go to buyback as opposed to M&A within the kind of framework of the Insurance business overall. Any thoughts as to M&A within the context of that as opposed to buyback and just a decision on the buyback as opposed to maybe increasing some targeted M&A?

Sure. Thanks, Kevin. So we generate, I think, as you'll appreciate, a very substantial amount of capital. Well, I've certainly talked at length around the discipline that we have brought to our M&A function. It's been focused on where we can create value. There has been no constraint on the deals that we want to pursue that we think can generate good returns or additive and value-creating. And so given the proceeds that were released as a function of this transaction, we don't see any need to reserve any portion of that amount for M&A. We can fully fund that out of our existing capital generation. And we think this is a demonstration of our capital discipline of when we have excess capital beyond what we can immediately deploy, we return that to shareholders.

Great, thank you.

Thank you. The next one, we have Andrew Jeffrey with Truist Securities.

Hi, thanks for screening in. I really appreciate it. I apologize, I jumped on the call a little late. I don't know, Mark, if you addressed this at all. But I'm wondering about insurtech broadly. And if you could talk a little bit about the nature of those customers versus, say, legacy P&C customers, what the contracts look like? If there's anything unique about those customers other than their apparently faster growth rate that you think gives Verisk an advantage or you think is notable generally as you look at your overall customer roster? I'm just trying to understand what you think the opportunity is there.

Sure. Let me take that on. So when I think of insurtech, there's two types of insurtechs. There's those folks who are kind of technology-savvy digital agent or underwriter and then there's service providers. And I think your question is focused on the former. Let me say this; we've done exceptionally well with insurtech. And I think, in large part, it's because they are not kind of living through what is a lot of legacy technology and a lot of legacy integrations. They have the ability to choose what we think is the best and most accurate solutions and best analytics, depending on need. And they have, in many cases, almost all cases, chose Verisk which we're delighted to see. What we had in the form of these partners is usually because of their ramping kind of business model, we typically start with kind of a lower price kind of a -- hopefully and get them on door type of price. But what they do is they buy not just one or two solutions but they bought the entire suite. So we have, with these insurtechs, usually a broader and more widespread set of solutions and a broader partnership with these insurtechs. And then as they grow, usually a little bit tied to your size and your premiums, we're able to grow with them. So, I think it's been a great nurturing type of relationship. I think they've helped us get better. They're very creative, very innovative. We think we are the same and it's been a wonderful partnership. So our new sales, our growth and our opportunity has really been bolstered by these insurtechs, Andrew.

Helpful, thanks.

We don't have any further questions at this time. And with that, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Have a great day.