Mark Marcon
Analyst · Mark Marcon of R.W. Baird
I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the dynamics around the big lump sum transactions on the retirement side. And to what extent those end up impacting just the recurring business, number one? Number two, while there is December 31 rationale for doing everything prior to the end of the calendar year, given that tensions continue to increase in terms of visibility and there is a source of pain for client, can you talk about just the additional types of consulting that you're doing there? John Haley Just as an intro, when you think about de-risking, it really has a lot of different facets, and a lot of that activity has been going on for years. And general de-risking has increased our revenues in some ways and it's decreased it in others. For example, when you freeze a pension plan, it generates actuarial administration, communication revenues. Following the freeze, there is maybe less consulting on plan design in regulatory compliance. However, if you look at the actuarial, the administration, the investment services needed by the plan that remains largely the same. (technical difficulty) bulk lump sum projects, it's the same kind of things there. The interesting thing about the bulk lump sums is the people who are being paid off and there pension liabilities extinguished, they are the people who are the near-term recipients of Benefits. So when I pay off the people who are the current retirees, when I give them lump sums and get rid of their pension liabilities, I haven't shortened the life of the pension plan by any degree at all, because the actives are still running out there for decades and the plan is running on. Now, with a larger group of the population gone, there maybe less of activity on some plan design projects for those individuals, but again, all of the actuarial, administrative investment work that needs to be done on the plan it continues really on the same time scale as it would have before. So I think that's for the first of the question. On the second part, I guess, I would say that pension plans, they do have a lot of prominence as you mentioned, and it's important to the organization. I actually think we'll continue to see activity in, first of all just de-risking, generally will continue to be activity. But specifically in terms of bulk sump sums, I expect to see people continuing to look at them. Even though the particular arbitrage activity that was available disappeared December 31, there were still be good reasons for pension plans to look to payoff individuals and get rid of the liabilities. I mean one simple reason for that is, you look PBGC premiums are supposed to go up in the U.S. and as PBGC premiums go up, if people can payoff the retirees and get out of them, then they'll better off.