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Century Aluminum Company (CENX)

Q3 2009 Earnings Call· Tue, Oct 27, 2009

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Thank you for standing by ladies and gentleman welcome to the Century Aluminum Third Quarter 2009 Earning Conference Call. At this time all participants are in listen-only mode. Later we will conduct a question-and-answer session and instructions will be given at that time (operator instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to your host Michelle Lair, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead ma'am.

Michelle M. Lair

Management

Thank you, Christopher. Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the conference call. For those of you joining us by telephone this presentation is being webcast on the Century Aluminum website www.centruryaluminum.com Please note that website participants have been advised to advance their own slides. The following presentation and discussion may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such statements related to future events and expectations and involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties. Century's actual results or actions may differ materially from those projected in these forward-looking statements, for summary the risk factors, that could cause actual results to differ from those expressed in these forward-looking statements please review Annex-A and refer to Century's Form 10-K for year ended December 31, 2008; Form 10-Q third quarter ended June 30, 2009 and other reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Information were added in this presentation and discussion is based on information available as of October 27, 2009. Century undertakes no duty to update or revise any forward-looking statements whether as the result of new information actual events, future events or otherwise. In addition, throughout the conference call, we will use non-GAAP financial measures, reconciliation of the most comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the appendix of today's presentation which is available on our website. I'd now like introduce to Logan Kruger, Century's President and Chief Executive Officer.

Logan W. Kruger

Management

Thank you Sherry, good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us. We continue to focus our efforts on preserving the company's value and welcome the opportunity to report on our progress. So let's get started and move on slide 4. The global economic environment undeniably strengthened during the past several months. As this conditions in industrial metro markets. Stimulus spending in China has combined with a recently rapid return to higher levels of consumer activity. I will provide some detail in a moment. But I will summarize our view as being recently constructive on the return to a consistent attractive growth in China and several other developing regions. This positive trend has been counted by the restart of miniscule Chinese capacity providing a reminder of the flexibility of this particular supply. In the developed world the data while not merely straight forward, demand in many regions seems to be at least step bottom. However, you are all familiar with the real structural challenges that remain. Only time will tell whether the high enough levels are sustainable of growth can be created to counter the very real imbalances which persists. In a similar context we continue to run the company with emphasis of preserving the significant improvement in financial states we have created. The cost reduction programs that holds lot -- had proven their sustainability. On the other hand we continue to see disappointing performance at Mt. Holly. Wayne will provide more detail on the operations at the plant. And importantly we have progress the happened obvious and a careful timings. I'm very pleased with our success, we've significantly improved a cost free financial profile. Mike will elaborate in a few moment. In a nut shell we have successfully mitigated the risk of the debt, which effectively matures in 2011.…

Wayne R. Hale

Management

Thanks Logan. Let's turn to slide number 10. Supplementing Logan's discussion about Helguvik shown is a recent photo of the site. Though we have reduced the spending on the project progress is still being made. All the columns for phase one A are cast the basement floor is nearly finished and installation of the working floor and building fuel support structure has started. To provide further direction and energy to the project, we have recently supplemented the integrated project team with additional personal resources. Turning to slide 11, we'll review the operations. The team of at Hawesville have continued their excellent performance in safety, production and cost improvement. Production is stable at about 80% of capacity. The cost structure based upon the significant rationalization actions taken earlier in the year has been preserved. The team has consistently demonstrated that they can run the plant safely, reliably predictably at these levels. During last quarter's call I spoke in detail about the terms of the new long term power contract that gives energy and a shorter-term agreement with on US. For the few months having a lapse big of reliably and cost performance has been on target. We continue to take an active role in monitoring the business. Grundartangi continues to perform well introduce above it's rated capacity this is a testament to the leadership skills of the principally Icelandic management team cost are obviously up a bit to the linkage of the power price to the -- price however in every other area, the efficiency and production metrics remain on track. Looking forward there is additional capacity decrease effort at Grundartangi. As you may recall the plans operating permit was expanded from 180,000 tons per year up to 300,000 tons per year in 2005. To enable low risk confirmation of performance…

Michael A. Bless

Management

Thanks Wayne. And if everybody could turn to slide 13 please. And also if you could have in front of you the earning's release and specifically the financial data that the tax too for comments that will make them easier to follow on. Okay first looking at the top of the income as usual my comments will compare the quarter that just ended to the prior quarter so the sequential comparison of Q3 over Q2. Before looking at the financial results, just take a step back and talk about the market as Logan spoke to. The cash LME price quarter-to-quarter on average was up 22% Q3 over Q2 and with a one month lag, just a little higher than that, 23% Q3 versus Q2. In fact in our average realized prices in the US those were up in on a per ton basis about 19%. They were up a little bit less than the markets because as we've described before we do have one reason we start contract in that's US as priced up one quarter lag. Our realized average total prices in Iceland per ton were up 23% consistent with the increase in the LME. Shipment volumes both in the US and in Iceland were up slightly as you can see at the end of the earnings data, following the earnings release and slash on a per day basis. There is a one more shipping day in Q3 versus Q2. As you saw in the earnings release Grundartangi shipped at an annualized pardon me rate of 275,000 tons. As Wayne said we are very pleased with the performance there again remind you that's safely 5 to 6% above Grundartangi's rated capacity. And now going onto the income statement back to the slide and to the data you see net…

Logan W. Kruger

Management

Thank you, Mike. In summary, we like as other as always and this is on slide 18, we are offsetting the continued stream of economic data which is setting mixed signals. Conditions in the western world clearly so that you can reach one and in certain regions and sectors are exhibiting some growth. China's performance has been impressive and achieves to have some length. On the other side of the coin, the aluminum sector is burdened with significant incremental capacity, much of which could be restarted reasonably quickly as well as a class of inventory. Time will tell how quickly economic activity consult several of this issues. In this life, we are running the company with what we considered an appropriate balance. Our first primary focus is the continuous safe and reliable operation of our plot at the current aggressive cost structure. Maintenance of our liquidity and strengthening of the company's balance sheet is also paramount and we continue to work to release entry of the top of fixed contractual obligations, which can become quite vertical during the weak economic environment. At the same time, we are spending considerable time and effort on the Helgavik smelter. There is of new capacity, which will be coming on stream in the Western world over the next few years. Given that multiple projects have been cancelled or severely delayed. A prime example of this, we've recently seen the cancellation of a major product in South Africa that would have added plus to 1 million tones of capacity as its completion. Thus the farm could be an opportunity to restart this project during the next several months. We're working hard put that in place debt structure which will allow us for a restart. While prudently protecting the company from undue risk. Please set your time and we'll hand you over to Christopher now, thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you (Operator Instructions). Our first question is from with Bret Levy with Jefferies & Company. Please go ahead sir. Bret Levy - Jefferies & Company: Hey guys can you talk a little bit about if you proceed with all the Helgavik spending and what are your general plans are what you think CapEx looks like for the overall company for the next three or four years it's a rough sense of spacing and then it looks like you have pretty good census for what capital structure you want to have to address this. Can you talk a little bit about whether or not that involves and is now was that coming in as unsecured relative to the new second secured notes that you are going to have with consent, how much debt how much equity. A little bit about what your general thoughts are in terms of how the financing should go?

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Sure, Brad thanks its Mike, its let me adjust all that. So quickly to put aside the sustaining CapEx we have put up out and estimate of about $50 million. It's consistent with how we went the company over the last couple of years $15 million to $20 million maintenance CapEx and that's not going to change. Put that away and well as you recall we had some capital projects about which we were thinking in the U.S. I think in the current environment its probably not -- couldn't even think about those, so can put those aside as well. So as you correctly pointed out, we are talking about Iceland and so lets go directly to Helgavik. Logan and Wayne talked about the phase one is very difficult to answer your question on three to four years because three to four year is a in time that could include and hopefully will include more than just phase I but that in terms on a whole a lot of things. So let just talk about phase 1A I think is a cleanest and easiest way to talk about this. $600 million, we haven't been providing any more detail yet spread on what the concept the capital structure phase that $600 million of spend will be and we are not ready to do it yet, we've done a lot of work with the European Banks, we are looking at other forms of financing but what we have said to our people. We've said that we're only looking at this point and debt structures again in that unrestricted serve that would be not rescore sale or your traditional kind of project financing with which you are very familiar. And as I said we made great progress to date on that actually Shelly and I are going to be over with orders colleagues meeting with the banks in Europe next week I suppose and they made some great progress and then the other thing we said on the non-project piece is that we would fund that fortune in a way as Logan has consistently said that doesn't put undue risk on the parent company and so I don't have anymore detail for you at this point in time directly making it up. We don't know what its going to be, we're looking at a lot of alternatives there, but we need to strike a balance between getting this project funded which we are confident we can do, but doing it in a way that doesn't put an undue burden on the company. I don't know Logan, if you want to add?

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah, just that we are really taking it into the early 2012 so in some ways this describes your question. The options aren't fully completed and until we have more detail for not just as we already to make any further comments. Bret Levy - Jefferies & Company: All right and then with respect Mt. Holly, can you guys talk a little about what the discussions have been vis-à-vis competitiveness for that plan outside you can turn it around or what your options are? Obviously you got the compare notes with your joint venture partner?

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

This is Wayne. Again to your point, we continue to work with our joint venture partner on the option that plan and the most important which is, are the power cost supplied by Stancy Cooper. So, and discussions with our partner we're approaching Stancy to review the options of that plan.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

I think good, just it's traditionally been a very well run plant. We been concerned about some of the operational performance issues which Wayne has been addressing with our partners. And we have, that will come back soon, but also corrected longer term -- and will than come up with solutions or up fronts --. Bret Levy - Jefferies & Company: All right thanks so much guys I will get back in queue.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Kuni Chen with Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead.

Kuni Chen - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Hi. Good afternoon everybody.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Hi Kuni.

Kuni Chen - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Just more of an industry question obviously you have good conversation with other folks out there in the industry I think and more of a unique situation of sort comment on some other trends out there. What is your view on sort of the momentum inventory situation at present current look sustainability of the markets can tangle and we have stabilization in LME inventories whether last few months also bit sharing potential that some materials moving into bad LME warehouses where it can't be as readily tracked, but just want to get your thought on those issues?

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Let me turn back to aluminum and Wayne and Mike can add on. I think obviously the numbers launch is 4.6 million stock but its clear now above some months that a large amount of that and people talk about 60, 70% so that a product in financing deals and the contender seems to be holding up throughout the of your question. Further the inventory off loader stocks and producer stock is not clear but the market longer discussion about. From the of general overseas the China has picked in, if you look at the numbers that's a pretty significant numbers on GDP 8.9% so this movement that its really hard the rest of the demand in North America. Europe has come about and I think it doesn't look. There is going to be upper hand on the market but as long as the method continues to be held for financing that's going to be obviously continue to have a process. We are obviously a bit more cautious on those issues and I don't know if Mike or Wayne would want to comment in addition.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

No.

Kuni Chen - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

All right. That's all I have for now. Get back in queue thanks.

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Okay thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you, our next question is from Wayne Atwell with Keslner Capital (ph). Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Thank you, what would it take for you to start back up and second thought would it make senses to finally pull the plug on it and shut it down for growth.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

This is Wayne and I will just address the question in parts, as you know that the plant is curtailed and we hope that its short term curtailment but its based on several factors coming into alignment that being a enabling power contractor both long-term and low cost that is also requiring a long global as the United sea orders given that facility of which we have an extension of that agreement through August 2010. And than finally with of course the anatomy market with sustain our plans at strict levels. So all the thing that has come into play them to level.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

I guess -- its Mike the other thing over that here partly addressing the second part Wayne to your question and partly just in general is a lot of these smelters is in the US sort of have been sort over the years in that case you seen as they restarted for long periods of time and have made nice money for their owners, this plant is from a book standpoint very heavily depreciated in terms of lot of capital to keep it running you'd obviously have to invest in working capital or restart it. But you can earn that with that investment probably back reason that we quickly. So we're working hard on creating that conditions obviously the market is one of the conditions of over which have no control. But Wayne and his team are working really hard on power contract and discussions with the union leadership and members to create the conditions that will give us the options to restrict that plant because we would like to do it's a good plan and it's a good team. And it could make good money for this company going forward.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Sure of a price that would excite you and get your cranked back up, some number some hurdle you are waiting for, or is it not that simple?

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah. I think whole bind you have seen the number that Mike that shows you earlier in cash break even of around 18 to 1900 we would lot some where in 2000 on a going forward basis.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah I think that's what is, as you know is higher than our is the highest cost capacity we have in the US. We've that's we've said that consistently and so point it have to be above that current range and so in that current range even will increase at the end of 2010. All those seeing equal of course when the Eon support for Hawesville goes away and so we're not there today and if you look at the fourth curve and believe that the forward screen is a projector for future prices and you might have environment in which you could do that so that's why we're spending a lot of time when the operation issues that -- would because it would like to preserve the option to do that.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Thank you.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thanks Wayne

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is with Chris Dougherty with Oppenheimer and Co. Please go ahead. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: I just want -- good afternoon, I just want to clarify couple of things here. The $600 million investments that you talk about for Helgavik. Is that all gone be non recourse portion of it and I just was trying to clarify that the non recourse versus the non-project debt portions?

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yes. So, this is Mike. So again we haven't quantified yet what the exact capital structure would be but the $600 is the total cost for phase one as a project of which some portion which we're still working with the banks on will be non refers traditional project that, and when look at projects like this similar projects like this, but we you have seen capital structures of debt a total cap, slightly less than that, slightly more than that based on specifics of the project and then what we have said is that for whatever the portion, that whatever the non recourse debt will be we will intend to finance that portion in a way that's not overall the risk lead to that company. We're not trying to be overly mysterious about what that is going to be because we just don't we haven't decided on what that enough security selection is going to be or could be all are different things that could be selling capital down at subsidiary roll or it could be selling or doing financing level at century level it could be a wide ray. I think as you would expect and I hope we're looking at a whole panoply of things and end of the day we help to create as many options as we can. We're confident we will never -- productions and then pick the best. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: That already struck 100 million.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

That's an excellent. Thank you. We've already split little detail of that 600 by the end of this year and we've talked about this consistently in our public disclosure. We have already spent a 100 so we're solving for 500 in last six months. Thanks. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: And also I just wanted to ask about that non-project debt could come from part of that could be the equity components which could be the cash on hand. It could be used as the cash on hand right now?

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Well, I mean it could be, we have $200 million debt, but you've heard in Logan's comments that while we have watched the movement of the elevated price with interest we're not convinced that we're sort of up into the right frontier. So I think when you hear us say we're not going to unduly burden or put it with the company to build this stage when we really mean it. And so the use of that good chunk of that cash is probably it's not something that we're currently contemplating Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: And just can you it looks like the cash costs increased quarter-over-quarter in Iceland.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

The only reason for that -- that's an excellent observation, the only in fact it did not the only reason for that is, if you look back at the last time we gave you this data we gave it to you based on the LME range 15 to 1700, 1500 to 1700, now we are giving it based on 17 to 1900. And yes, if you could calculate the sensitivity and bring it back to 1500 to 1700 LME you will see that the costs were exactly the same. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: And just one last thing, from the cash costs you gave us for the US and where prices are is it your expectation that the US will be breakeven or better in the fourth quarter?

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Depends on the LME price, obviously at the current LME price the US is indeed cash flow positive. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: All right, thank you.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Sure thank you.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you, Chris.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question is from John Prumalso (ph) with Very Independent Research (ph). Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Congratulations on getting so much worked on tough markets.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you, John.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thanks John.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

What are the strike prices of the food protections you've bought and is there any gain or loss on the 11 million share equity exchange over the convertible?

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Okay. So I'll answer the this will not be detailed in love in detailed in other than one piece of your first question but on the convert, yes, we did buy those notes back at less than the face value and until there will be there is a gain on that. You will see very little of it in the third quarter as I said because only 15 million principle amount of those exchange is actually closed in September. The rest you will see in the fourth quarter when we really saw but yeah and we will have a full gain on those because we repurchased on that at less on that phase. As you can calculate by just doing the math. One the torque John, we are not going to its really competitive so we would prefer not to specifically detail. We'll have in our queue what the volumes where on a monthly basis and how many months they went out but all we would say is that when we looked at what level and Logan will we have some comments here on this. At what level we are to protect. We wouldn't want a protect at a loss if you will. So we kind of looked at where Hawesville's cash cost would predict be over the next 15 months in our calculations and then we obviously you never want to hedge to protect a loss, Logan I guess if you ....

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

I think that's exactly right, and I think John if you look at the timing and what we indicated to you will actually give you a fairly good idea of what range we had. As you know they have also balanced between the protection under cost of that you pay we're taking think reasonably balance you either.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Thank you.

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thanks John.

Operator

Operator

Thanks you, our next question is with Mark -- I'm sorry for the last name Lenama (ph) with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

I apologize for it as well. Logan you talked about more curtailments being needed to balance the market that you wouldn't likely see them at this price, can you give any sort of comment on what price might be required?

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

To have more curtailments?

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Yes.

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah, I'd really not like to think about that Mark, but you're asking the question. so I will think that as we've seen and this not unusual there is a problem with people hanging in there while they get paid and as you know with particularly our colleagues did segment reasonably quickly. Obviously, trough was somewhere around 1600 restock seem banned against. I have got some agreements here I am not calling mark them maybe at -- but I would say, top of 1600. Again we've about clear fact of everything but some of the input cost of come off common hedge also the sort of things. So we also balance that all but -- 1200 to 1600.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. Thanks for that. And just your comments were fairly cautious on from the state of the market may I guess they were fairly cautious last quarter as well. And the markets continued to surprise us. What is there anything you could point to the maybe is happening that accounts for that it could be sustainable looking for a surprise to the upside, what would that be?

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

I think, there seems to be a couple of dynamic. We know there is a large amount of that's locked up in the LME press on financing deals we know the other that's been targeted from fall or other. We also know that the China and India story seems to great gaining momentum again. For there is a problem, the upside is going to be the immobility or the unavailability of that inventory versus the kick up in demand in the other areas below. I think that's the one -- that's very hard to measure. And you get it very mix signals from United Steel manufacturers to see what iron ore some other to some of the pick up. So, I think that's a surprise. I don't know my colleagues may actually have a lot of ideas. Shelly, Mike? I think, that's the area that its hard to measure but does surprise from the upside.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

And you do mentioned that your saying consumer stock is very low, do you think that we, are you seeing any change in behavior on buying that you can?

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah, we've seen, but in the U.S. on particularly because we are one of the few suppliers of high quality, high purity material out of wholesale. So, we seen from interested which is change over the last quarter. We are cautious, but we're less cautious and we were the second goal.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Good luck with all very positive steps that you have taken to be ready when that comes. Thanks.

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you

Operator

Operator

Thank you our next question is a follow up question with Wayne Atwell with Keslner Capital (ph). Please go ahead.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Yeah, thank you and not be a dead horse, but if a price of LME in totality 2200, 2400, 2600 what do you think about as a buying puts or selling force for so you'll lock in a profit for a year or two?

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yes we were. That's one of the strategy you will deal with was -- good question.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

So, basically that would lock in a profit, you could feel pretty comfortable crack that backup.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah, I mean you can never at this point given your equity in this market here I just, I hasn't taken you can never lock in a profit because you can't lock down your cards. So that's why I emphasize, we were confident enough to go out and purchase those for Hawesville because when we know our LME cost and we know what the sensitivity is to the market. Even though Big River is a cost base contract that's not fixed price. We think there is little amount of variability -- to the end of that, the kind of new or believe we know a lot of analysis with good predictability within a range what our cost at Hawesville are going be, even then we didn't sell for we just plan out session by some insurance.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Wayne Hale

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thanks Wayne.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). Our next question is also a follow up question with Chris Dougherty, Oppenheimer and Co., please go ahead. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: Mike.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Hi Chris. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: And I just a couple of quick -- questions I think you mentioned in SG&A this quarter there was about $4 million of economic related to growing stuff and 2 million I think is that related to a professional fees? What was the other 2 million?

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yes, the 2 million is just from market it's not number it's a non cash item I will try and give you guys a cash amount of thereby 2 million bucks of stuff that flows into SG&A that is accrual but not cash. Mostly in and other employee cards and then and then the other couple million was actual cash, but just I wouldn't count in one time items, because we're still working hard in lot of these actions, but they are professional fees well and acceptable where we were normally there given all the professional advice that we needed here financial legal and otherwise as we work through all these transactions. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: And than just one another clean up and relates in non-cash interest I think in the last 2, 4 years about 2 million there but is that still the case?

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Non-cash interest you're talking about relating to I'm not exactly sure what's your --perhaps you were remembering the new accounting under what I get used to be call under the new reconciliation system that tells we said it something else but the new accounting for convertible notes is what you are referring to? Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: Yeah probably.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah, okay so you know multi talented cash that you're seeing there I don't on 250, one in three quarters percent on 175. If you that out some small fees relate on our revolver but we are not getting rather than but 8 million to backs up the LMCs and it will work out by 22 million and that's why you see the 11 million. It's pretty much cash interest there. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: It is just more sense..

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

No, no absolutely cash. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: The current cash interest expense, are the current interest expense is 7.7 million really is about 5.5 million or so?

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yeah, that's sounds about right. Is keep going up which is nodding up and down. Chris Dougherty - Oppenheimer & Co.: Yeah, that's right. Okay. That's it. Thank you.

Michael Bless

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thanks -- thank you

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions). Management, I have no further questions at this time and if there are any concluding remarks you would like to make. Please go ahead.

Logan Kruger

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you, Christopher. I'd just like to thank everyone for been on the call today. We look forward to speaking with you guys. Thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

Thank you ladies and gentlemen; this concludes the Century Aluminum third quarter 2009 earning's conference call. Once again we would like to thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.