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Transcript
OP
Operator
Operator
Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Las Vegas Sands Corp. fourth quarter Earnings Call. My name is Maria, and I would be your audio coordinator for today. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode and we will be facilitating a question-and-answer session towards the end of today's conference. (Operator Instructions) At this time, I would now turn the presentation over to Mr. Bill Weidner. Please proceed.
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Thank you, Maria, and good afternoon, everyone. And thank you all for joining us today. On the call with me are Mr. Sheldon Adelson, our Chairman; Brad Stone, Executive Vice President; Rob Goldstein, President of the Venetian in Las Vegas and the Palazzo; Scott Henry, Senior Vice President; Bob Rozek, our Chief Financial Officer; and Dan Briggs, our VP of Investor Relations. Before we begin, I need to remind you that today's conference call contains forward-looking statements that we're making under the Safe Harbor provision of federal securities laws. I would also like to caution you that the Company's actual results could differ materially from the anticipated results in those forward-looking statements. Please see today's press release under the caption "forward-looking statements" for a discussions of risks that may affect our results. In addition, we may discuss adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income, adjusted EPS, and adjusted property EBITDAR, which are non-GAAP measures. A definition and a reconciliation of these measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures are included in the press release. Please note also that this presentation is being recorded. By now, you all should have received our press release detailing our financial results for the fourth quarter of 2007. We again put quite a bit of detail into our release today, so we'll keep to our prepared remarks topline, beginning with some highlights for the quarter, the discussion of the Macao market factors as we see them, and then moving on to a few concluding thoughts, and then we'll move on to your questions. In Las Vegas, the Venetian continued it's solid performance throughout the product. Fourth quarter gaming volumes were up above the non-baccarat table drop and slot handle. Our hotel ADR and RevPAR statistics were also strong during the quarter with both ADR and REVPAR…
OP
Operator
Operator
(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Felicia Hendricks with Lehman Bothers. Please proceed.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Hi, guys. Good afternoon.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Good afternoon.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Hi. I have few questions. First one I guess is for Brad, just looking at the EBITDAR margins at The Venetian Macao, if you adjusted last quarter for hold, its look like they were about flat. And I’m just wondering how we should think about that going forward, I know it's a dig and divert that kind of get costs at normalized levels there, but are we going to see it kind of flattish for the next few quarters or do you expect -- are you seeing things now that would indicate that they might ramp?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
I think personally and looking at the margins, we did hold about two points low what we expected that the segment at The Venetian, we expect to see that at the normal holds, you traditionally see as the property opens and of course we held slightly below what we expected to hold, we held 2.72 on the rolling program at the Venetian. So roughly a difference of about $32 million in EBITDA, a 60% margin after gaming tax. I think it's important to recognize, we are learning a lot at the Venetian Macao, as Bill indicated in his presentation. I am pleased to see, I guess in one sense I am frustrated to see, but pleased to see a lot of opportunity for us to work on margins as we figure out the various business segments, as we figure out exactly the staffing levels needed to efficiently operate that property. So I think you are going to see a gradual ramping up once we adjust the revenues and whole percentages and like you are going to continue to see a more efficient sales of the room product which will drive revenues. At the same times we're working very hard at staffing levels, looking at how entertainment venues work and how to price ourselves. I mean as Bill said the good news on the entertainment side is absolutely work to fill the place. Honestly if you look back, we missed some opportunities to maximize our revenues as we see more opportunities to sell tickets at a higher price for certain events. So we're learning a lot, each time we have an event, each time we enter a new market, as we get the ferries going, we just see a lots of opportunity to take this operation. And as the pioneers we are right now, improve those operations and see those margins grow.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Okay. And anyone can take this next question. I was wondering, I know you don't give guidance. But if you can just give us some kind of update on what you have been seeing in January particularly since there has been -- in Macao since there have been news reports which have reported revenues in market share numbers. And I am sure you have seen those. And certainly these reports have indicated that you have lost some market share in January versus December. So I was wondering if could address that?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
This is Sheldon Adelson. Actually lose is coming out with every two weeks market share. I'm going to propose we have an organization come up with daily in that hourly market share statistics. Maybe that will be more meaningful. I think we're getting to the point where the whole thing is ridiculous. I mean these people that are coming up with minute by minute market shares and then make investment decisions on that, those are the kind of people I wouldn't want to handle my personal money.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Okay. Having said that, can you give us...?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Yeah. Having said that, we don't intend to, January is part of the first quarter of '08, so when we [report] the quarter, we'll talk about January.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Okay. And then just a housekeeping question. I was just wondering if you could just tell me for the quarter, the average square foot that was opened in the mall, and then your revenues per square foot?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
We're not going to report any January numbers?
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
No, for the fourth quarter?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
I can't judge the average number of stores or the number of stores ending?
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
For the quarter, the square foot that was opened in the quarter and the revenues per square foot?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
I can't answer that question. It ramped up from zero to about 220 stores. So we haven't figured, we have to figure a daily average of the number of stores in the square footage and we don't think anybody would really want over that.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Okay. I thought because I have it, I thought you gave the data for the last quarter or so.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Felicia, we did give the data for the last quarter, where we are at January or today is about 500,000 square feet of space open. For the fourth quarter we had an average of approximately, on a weighted average basis, in the neighborhood of 300,000 square feet open for the entire quarter, September 30 to December 31. And with respect to talking about sales per square foot, we may very well be able to talk about sales per square foot some time at the investor conference, but today we are not prepared to talk about that in any detail.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Okay. Thanks.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
We haven't done the arithmetic on it and we'll do the arithmetic and we can answer that question off-line if you'd like.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Thank you very much.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
We certainly have the math on a week-to week basis, on a store to store base, but the key is going back and how many days of the week the store is open and then how many weeks of the quarter that is open. So all that math needs to be put together and we'll have some of that staffs next week on a more detail.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
I mean we could give you the opening day, we could give you the closed day and we'll give you the ramp up during the periods. But we haven't done the calculations on that.
FB
Felicia Hendricks - Lehman Bothers
Analyst · Lehman Bothers. Please proceed
Okay. I look forward to hearing that next week.
OP
Operator
Operator
Your next question comes from the line of Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies. Please proceed.
Larry Klatzkin - Jefferies & Co.: Hey guys. Let's do it minute-by-minute that will be better. That's how we can spend our time doing it. Question one, has the ferry got it going, how's that? Congratulations getting the ruling in your favor.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
Yes. The ferries are up and operating. We are operating about every half hour service during the day now. In my conversation, end of the day, Monday, with the fellows there in Macao, we now have qualified captains and crews to be able to do 24 hour sailing. All we wait for now is the approval of the additional slips in Hong Kong. So hopefully in a relatively short period of time, we will have ourselves to the point where we have enough equipment and the approvals for 24 hours sailing so we can do night cruising.
Larry Klatzkin - Jefferies & Co.: All right. Great.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
This week we just started back in business again about five or six business days ago and it is beginning to ramp up to the levels that we were before we had to close down. We're very confident that that service is going to prove to be superior and the fact that you can go directly to the strip and in minutes from our door, I think it will do very, very well as we get into full service operations, add more ferries. Once we ramp-up in the next three to five months, with every 50 minutes service, I think we'll have an excellent generator of 1,000 of bodies to the Cotai Strip.
Larry Klatzkin - Jefferies & Co.: All right. Well, great. And then the other question I had is just the timing or schedule of all the projects in the budgets as you see them -- sorry with The Four Seasons, Brad, what you were looking for an opening day, what should we use in our models ,you could just talk about maybe the Shangri-La and the budget with Singapore?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
Okay. The first project it's going to open is in The Four Seasons. We're scheduled that for June in this year. And we'll go next (inaudible) I think it's in summer, but we are looking at June time period. The budget is roughly $1.1 billion that includes The Four Seasons itself, that include the service department complex, a 39-storey tower adjacent and include The Four Season's mall and that also included their mansions at The Four Season which was very high-end suite product 19, Florida suites with their own infrastructure that supports a very premier end of the market. That, I can say, without the main project will be open in June, the private mansions are at the end of the year and the service departments are some time in the first to second quarter of next year. But those sales are up things are beginning now. Of course, sites five and six that's known as the Shangri-La, St. Regis, Sheraton and Traders complex. That's roughly going to come in at about 6,600 total rooms, meet at the mix of the various frame, the huge building is just about 13.7 million square feet. Right now, I'm just going to get the hard, the construction cost which includes the actual construction, what we call, the built-in FF&E including guest room furnishing and designer's cost. It's roughly about $3.3 billion. We're still working on final FF&E budgets and pre-opening budgets. So that will probably be another area about $500 -- $300 million to $400 million in that project. That is opening the first stage of which is the Sheraton Tower and Shangri Las Vegas tower and in the some of the entire podium that will open in May of '09, as we talked in our prior call and then the St. Regis…
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
Yes.
Larry Klatzkin - Jefferies & Co.: So, sorry, say have a Bethlehem?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
Let me take in my words.
Larry Klatzkin - Jefferies & Co.: Sorry Brad.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
Next one is the Palazzo condominium that project as you can see looking at the Palazzo is going up right now. We're going to end up with about $1,035,000 net salable square feet, it's hard constructions cost, it's just about all construction cost, it's just under $600 million and again that's looking for the completion in the fourth quarter of '09. And lastly Bethlehem, we start standing steel this month. We've done extensive ground work, all foundation systems are in. We start putting the podium up this month and at the 304 room project with 5000 slot machines initially and again our hope is to persuad thegovernment. I'm sorry 3000 stairs to [5006 feet]. Sheldon correct me.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Larry Klatzkin with Jefferies
3000 at opening and 6 months later we'll go to 5000, but we are building the property to encompass the entire 5000. It has a couple of hundred thousand square feet of retail space at arena, total square footage on that about is about 2.4 million and a hard construction price of 552. When you have all the lights and fitting in and other issues, it's probably more in the range of $800 million to $825 million and that project will open up in the second quarter of '09 and the Hotel Tower will be about two months behind that.
Larry Klatzkin - Jefferies & Co.: Thank you very much. That's all my questions. Thanks guys.
OP
Operator
Operator
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed.
RU
Robin Foley - UBS
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Thank you. I wondered if you could talk about anything changing at Venetian to counter commission rates. I know you won't comment on January results. But can you talk about changes that may be implemented in February?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Yes. In February, given the competitive nature of the commission situation at Macao, we have now offered to our junket reps the program that's called the 60-20-20 program and that the adjusted commission rates on the 60-20-20 program were higher than the commission rates that were offering out your commission basis as they expect the whole percentage of 2.8%, I think it's approximately 1.22 is my recollection. And so we've offered a bit more competitive junket structure. The good news of that is they share a bit in the down side if we are going to reach our expected whole percentage, although they get more of the upside if our whole percentage is above 2.85. So, yes, we have adjusted our commission structure and we have adjusted the offerings to the marketplace in terms of the independent representatives.
RU
Robin Foley - UBS
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
I don't know if you can comment on in terms of when that begins, now that it is February when that will begin?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
It began on February 1st.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Can you speak up a little bit Robin please?
RU
Robin Foley - UBS
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Sure. Can you talk about in terms of response to that in the marketplace and whether you expect others are going to have to move commission levels up now that you've moved to this kind of commission structure?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
I think others already have. I think we were the outlier on the low side during the month of January. So to convert this more, it took us a while to divert this kind of program and getting additional chips etcetera, but we targeted February 1st and we are now in place with the new commission structure as of February 1. We don't know exactly how that has manifested itself yet because these are the slowest days of the year as you approach the Chinese New Year, we would expect to have a much better idea during the Chinese New Year time and we're expecting a very robust business during that period of time beginning the six or seventh of February.
RU
Robin Foley - UBS
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Great. And just the last question is, announcement earlier today about the mall at Macao Studio City being sold for a price that suggests kind of, I guess $1300 per square foot. I wonder if you can comment on, is that, when you think about your mall sale, where do you think that's a level you expect?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
That is a piece of property that doesn't have one lease sign yet, so it's pretty robust number.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
I don't know how this hypothesis leads into reality. They're estimating, they're going to do $1300 a footwork, they are estimating $13000.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
And so now they are calculating back per square foot things what the effective sales price was?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
It was close to the mall, they've sold the mall.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Yes, there was an announcement.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
But what it was?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
That was up today.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
They sold the mall for $1300 a foot?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Among themselves, they sold the (inaudible).
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Well, they had to have money?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
So I don't think it's -- I think it's something of distressed sales in that. So I don't think, I don't think --
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
We are not believers of selling properties or bringing in partners while your property has already gone down and then saying that it was a good thing to do. The property has got good promise and good potential. You want to stick with it and not sell it off to get some money, I think it's pretty cheap at $1300. If they go into to do business, then will be able to sell it at several thousand foot. If I can talk by myself, I just want to make one comment about the presentation. There's good news here I mean that's on a broad-brush basis. The good news is that there is no more waves of competition on the peninsula coming up. There are no more developments that we know that are being planned. Stanley Ho isn't doing any more developments in the foreseeable future and none of its sublicenses are doing any more developments there. So the good news is that the market is growing from 2002 from US$2.7 billion to US$10.3 billion or US$10.4 billion, whichever number you believe or whichever number is accurate, for 2007. That's almost a four times multiple over a five-year period. Now you're looking at the growth, I believe it was about $8 million in 2001 or so, give and take about the same here. And this past year we ended up with $27 million business. For those doubters who think that there was a prospective market in China, both to grow in terms of gaming volume and to grow in terms of visitor volume, I think that the facts clearly belie and contradict the doomsdayers' proclamations. The validation of the integrated resort concept of the Strip has been resoundingly proven. But each of the elements, each of the six elements that Bill…
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
I want to add one thing to what Sheldon said as we're taping the call here. I was there last week and I was standing in the tower of the Sheraton Tower 5. When you look across the street, you see the Venetian, you see the Four Seasons complex getting completed. You look at the City of Dreams, what we call site core, which is pretty impressive looking properties, five and six. Now you get it, you see it's about to happen. We're just within a year of this critical mass that Sheldon was talking about, making that, one of the most important places in Asia. And that's before we add site seven and eight before we add sight three. So, couldn't help in getting a show when you look across there and say this is a powerful, powerful critical mass of product being constructed right there across the street from our Venetian.
DB
Dan Briggs
Analyst · Robin Farley with UBS. Please proceed
Next question?
OP
Operator
Operator
Your next question comes from the line of Steve Kent with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed.
SS
Steve Kent - Goldman Sachs
Analyst · Steve Kent with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed
Hi. Two questions. One, could you just give us more color on Hengqin Island, what kind of progress you're seeing there? And then, second, what are your conference convention sales reps telling you right now about the outlook for '08, given discussion of a slowing economy in 2008? This is for the US. But then, also, separately on the Macao convention market, what are you seeing there just as you start to book out into '09 and '010 from a utilization perspective? What's your gut sense as to how high that could go?
UR
Unidentified Company Representative
Analyst · Steve Kent with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed
I think starting with Hengqin Island. Hengqin Island, we continue to pursue Hengqin Island. We continue to communicate with the guys of Zhuhai and Guangdong Province. It is China and it's a measured Asian step-by-step process. Well, it's a primary message that we are being told by the mainland Chinese, so we are taking a step at a time with piece at a time.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Steve Kent with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed
I guess, that leaves the convention part of the question to me. Here in the United States, I'd been saying this for years and people are concerned. People are always concerned about whether or not the slowing economy for the fact that's happening and will continue to happen is going to impact conventions. And I have said repeatedly that the one thing that people cannot do in order to stay competitive in their own business and only to be in their own business, get up-to-date, see new products, have new discussions about new technology etcetera, etcetera. They can't afford to stay away from their dealer meetings, their sales meetings, their trade shows and the association, both trade and professional conferences. If in fact, these things are so big, you can take a 50,000 person trade show and have a 20% drop, which is the maximum that was experienced within 30 days of 9/11, just 20%. All right, that means 80% of them are still coming and 80% of the 50,000 person show is 40,000 will have 7,000 rooms of which we only allocate about 4,000, 5,000 to groups and we'll certainly fill that with 40,000 people coming. If we have over 5,000 person company group or sales meeting, everybody has to go because they work with the company and they have to show up. And the company shows it. We don't think that there is enough demand to keep our Las Vegas rooms full. We are the largest convention facility. We have more convention meeting rooms, breakout rooms in the entire city of San Francisco and the entire city of Los Angeles. People that have largest shows have no where else to go and the attraction of being under one roof. All at once, I never had to believe that…
SS
Steve Kent - Goldman Sachs
Analyst · Steve Kent with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed
Okay. Thanks.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Steve Kent with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed
Thank you.
OP
Operator
Operator
Your next question comes from the line of Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed.
BB
Bill Lerner - Deutsche Bank
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
Thanks, guys. Two questions. First may be for Bill or for Shel naturally, its a poorly kept secret so I guess I will ask, could you just talk about the strategy and maybe I guess you'll say but the economics of the two L1011 and as we are, kind of days away from Chinese New Year and then I have a follow-up?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
I don't think we will require to do that so
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
Strategy…
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Yeah also the strategy of the L1011s.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
Strategy of the L1011s?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
They fly a long way. So we bring people along the way without stopping. People can smoke on them if they're done in private. So I mean its just...
BB
Bill Lerner - Deutsche Bank
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
Its transport and no other activity?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
I don't think we need to comment on that
BB
Bill Lerner - Deutsche Bank
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
Okay. All right. And then the…
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Comment on that
BB
Bill Lerner - Deutsche Bank
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
I got you Bill.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
We don't want was to give our competitors the roadmap to success.
BB
Bill Lerner - Deutsche Bank
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
All right. Just a follow up, it’s some of these smaller markets, can you just talk a little bit about the thinking there, markets like Kansas, I know it's sensitive because it's tending staff. But I guess it's similar in a way to Pennsylvania, obviously Massachusetts would be better. But, clearly, if you'd like, you have the bandwidth because you are moving forward with it, but where's the strategy, it feels like it's more intangible than the absolute amount of cash flow they generate?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
I don't think so. I mean look our hurdle rates 20 plus cash-on-cash yield. And our view is that if you have a land-based "monopoly" in an environment like that that competes better than having to put up with riverboats and the inconveniences of riverboats that you are in a market that generates now hundreds of millions of dollars of win out of less than attractive than optimally attractive facilities, everything people like make a lot of money out of it.
BB
Bill Lerner - Deutsche Bank
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
Okay. Thanks Bill.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Bill Lerner with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed
This is Sheldon. I'd just like to make a comment somebody just gave me a piece of paper that talks about there's more than five cities open in Japan and Macao is launching a flight each to Nosaka, Fukuoka, Okinawa, Nagoya, and Hokkaido, and of course there is Osaka and Tokyo. And I think I have heard somebody saying something about Yokohama. Also Korean Air. AirKorea is going to start charter flights between Macao and Korea. So that is going, that's fix to the issue of bringing in multi-night overnight stay market and how you gave me budgets for our passenger.
OP
Operator
Operator
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Hey guys. Bill and Sheldon, you spent a lot of time in the call talking about the increase in average length of stay for Macao as a market. Can you talk about what your experience was at the Venetian Macao in the 4Q?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
What?
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
In the fourth quarter?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
I didn't hear.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
The average length of stay in the fourth quarter?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Do we have that, Scott?
SH
Scott Henry
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
We don't have it presently. It's something we are preparing for the investors day next week.
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Okay. Guys, you can say in general, Joe that.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
I asked about that.
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Actually I was trying to say increased from first sale from the property whenever operating challenges was, we didn't put like minimum days or weekends and the like and we had tremendous amount of transactions coming out of the Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou markets. And so, we do at times, but certainly minimum stays, obviously as we have more group business, that business tends to stay several days. So, it's really evolved. Number one is as we moved into more group business, that generated more overnight stays, and even our FIT policies and tour policies at times dictate minimum night stays.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Well, a lot of those exact statistics on a couple of different measurements next week at the Investor Conference.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Okay. Great. And then, have you yet received the proceeds from general growth on the Palazzo Mall, and I guess what is that amount?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
The intern is doing the final stages of negotiating the details of the franchise.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Okay. But you expect that by the end of this quarter?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
I don't know. I'm not involved in it.
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
End of this quarter.
UR
Unidentified Company Representative
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Well, I'm sorry, (inaudible) is not on the line, so I can't tell you, but whatever was anticipated to grow, I mean to close.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Great. And then just go back to your earlier comments on the United States conference convention business, Sheldon. You mentioned a lot of details and thank you very much for that. But I guess is it fair to say that where you sit you are not seeing much of an impact in conference and convention bookings. Is that fair to say?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
I think the opposite, Joe, I think it's fair to say that if you walk through The Venetian Palazzo and see the size of this complex demand for our space and then what happens U.S. economy, we have no idea of obviously what happened to the economy as demand on these conventions side is very, very strong, a little bit complex now. It's pretty amazing to see what it offers to the convention meetings business. I think just the opposite of our business will get stronger if we want to be stronger in that segment.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
I think the key for us is this property and because of that infrastructure, we have many markets we can go to. A lot of people in this town are a lot more kind of on the touring FIT market. We certainly have that. We constantly look to tweak and change our mix of business and we are in fortunate position having most important meetings product in the world in this building. It's having the best of the best at your disposal to pick and chose when you want to open that tap and close that tap is what we have here. In the path there's been more of a challenge of turning off the group business to go after the FIT and we do see some weakness in the FIT market more likely on and happen in the economy. We have a strong group business and as Rob mentioned that demand to tell that our rooms and just make changes of mix to a more groups and types of it.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
At the risk of turning with credit of -- I have been saying for years that well I will say this now, not all operators, not all gaming and hotel operators or destination and resort operators are created equal. Some are created more equal than others. Our fundamental strategy convention base is what differentiates just from other properties in all of our developments. The reality is that midweek you don't get everybody coming because people have to work. Now there are a lot of people retired, a lot of people take vacation times at different times. So there's lot of FIT in tour and travel market out there. However, they don't pay as much as the commercial market pays, it's very compelling. Somebody works for the company who has got to get the information they need to do their job. That is the business experience and that continues. So, we are just created more equal than the other guys because they never, they're always derided, they always demonized our conventional strategy and look who is laughing last. Our ADR was the highest in the history for rooms, the sleeping rooms, in the highest history of the hotel industry. Our occupancy rate was the highest in the history of the hotel industry. The amount of money we took in the same in an annual basis. We've set the records. Now, we don't see any reason that businesses don't have to operate any more. As a matter of fact, they have to operate. In some cases, when things are not going very well, the guys that really get hurt from the general economy are the guys that go out there and cater to the mid market. They don't have a convention-based security to know that tomorrow's rooms are going to be filled. And if the economy starts to hurt people and it's always very sensitive in the United States, if the economy goes bad and people start tightening their belts, the operators are going to get hurt of the people that came into the mid market and to Mr. Joe's six packs. We're catering to the luxury market and the high end and the convention market. I know that 35 years of being in that business that that doesn't end. That just continues.
JS
Joe Greff - Bear Sterns
Analyst · Joe Greff with Bear Stearns. Please proceed
Great. Thanks, guys. See you next week.
OP
Operator
Operator
Your question comes from the line of Dennis Forst with KeyBanc. Please proceed.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Yeah. Good afternoon. I had a couple of questions. Bob: can you clarify the foreign currency translation losses? That was a much bigger “other” expense than I had been anticipating.
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
That is related to our inter-company lending arrangements is between the US and in Macao. And that's just really an accounting convention. Because it's an inter-company account we have to take to the P&L rather than taking it to equity. And if you look at in the quarter, it was a little bit bumpy, but if you look over the course of the year, the currency didn't move that much. And I think the total FX impact for the year is about $8 million, [$3 billion] of inter-company account. So it's really pretty good.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
And you had a nice profit in the third quarter.
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Yeah. So it levels out over the course of the year to a very, very material amount.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Okay. And then: what about construction in progress at the end of the year? Do you have that or any other balance sheet items: you have the amount of debt at the end of the year?
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
They should all be in the balance sheet information that we have. I'm not sure what you question is, Dennis.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Specifically just construction in progress, I don't see the balance sheet in the press release.
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Yeah. If you go to the talks about the CapEx in the quarter in the press release, the capital expenditure were about $1.07 billion.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
See that section. The balance sheet is above that. Talks about cash, debt 5.7.
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
7.57.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
7.57. But it's always better in my opinion to break up that construction in progress, so that we don't kind of deal for that construction is not generating any cash flow so that it is --
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Will have that.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
We back that out usually.
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
We'll have that for the Investor Day next Monday.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Okay. Then looking out in to the future your tax holiday ends at the end of this year in Macau?
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
No, at the end of '08.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
End of this year. So: if we're modeling next year then should we use a normalized 30%, 35% tax rate?
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
No. Our accounting for that reflects the fact that we fully expect that tax holiday to continue.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
You do.
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
In fact, the government gave Stanley Ho his holiday, and there are laws in Macau that prevents anybody from being harmed competitively as a result of the income taxes there. So we fully expect that to continue for us as well, and that's where we have done to all of our accounting for income taxes.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Okay. What is the status there about issuing new licenses come '09? Has there been any talk about changing that date? Either moving it up or moving it back for doing anything?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Well, we have to tell you about this anecdotal information. The anecdotal information has it that there will be no new licenses issued in '09. At the end of '09, there will be a new Chief Executive and I think that the Chinese government -- and we can't state this as a matter of fact, but our relationship with them indicates that, if anything, there will be a contraction of some of the licenses. Some of the older individual non-knowns, what I call: “sub-licensees of Stanley Ho”, like Golden Dragon, not the Golden Dragon.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Golden Dragon.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Golden Dragon and some of them in Greek Mythology and these other places. If there is a new Chief Executive that's being appointed, I think that, I'm hoping of course, that some of those sublicenses will be closed. Now, I have nothing, no statement to base that on, except appealing that when we talk to the Chinese government that they indicate to us that they feel there have been too many licenses out there. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon between now and then to open. So we're going to make every effort to see that they don't -- that this doesn't expand at all. So we're going on the basis of being no new '09 licenses.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Okay.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Dennis, you and I haven't talked for many years, but good to hear your voice again.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Thank you
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
I do read about you once in a while. Dennis, I want to tell you it's a very good point about the currency exchange. In Singapore, we are winning, I think, we've got a very substantial upside there because we are borrowing at sing rates, and our sing rates are about 4%, give or take, I think the first I went personal down to….
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
3.6
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
3.6. And I think the next one if we pick 90, or 6 months, 90 days or six month neighbor of the 4…
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
We'll pick six months today, it will be 3.9.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
3.9. Okay. That's good. We're building in Singapore dollars. But when we earn money, we'll earn money in Singapore dollars, but when we convert it, it goes way up in terms of dollars. So I think, maybe if I am an analyst, I'd probably make an adjustments for the exchange rate, it's tough to predict two years out, but it's on a -- maybe. When we started, I think it was 1.7. Rob, it's a 1.65?
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
1.65. 141
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Today, it’s about 1.42. So we are down about 23 basis points, which comes to about a 15% number. So when we convert and we can look forward to converting Singapore dollars, we don’t see anything that will weaken the Singapore exchange rates. So that's good news for us.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Good. I'm assuming you are going to combine going forward two Vegas properties will see the numbers combined as one?
BR
Bob Rozek
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
I think there will be some -- at the bottomline they will be combined, because of all the operational synergies and the way the businesses are managed, but I think on the topline, most were kicking around the tunnel, but there is some discussion of presenting separate topline statistics for The Venetian and then for The Palazzo.
DM
Dennis Forst - Keybanc Capital Market
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Yes, hope that is the case. Thanks a lot. See you next week.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · KeyBanc. Please proceed
Thanks, Dennis.
OP
Operator
Operator
And your last question comes from the line of Celeste Brown with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
CS
Celeste Brown - Morgan Stanley
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
Hi, guys, good afternoon. If could you just clarify a couple of comments in the call, Brad? The budget you are giving for the various properties: do they include or exclude land? And then it sounded like they were being, you talked about for five and six a little bit more on each project for FF&E.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
Yeah. They exclude land, and I said that they see, they don't until pre-opening, or what we call owners FF&E which I think like slot machines, table games, computers, it includes kitchen equipment, includes anything built-in and it includes all the furnishing s for all the 6,000 plus rooms and suites.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
Yeah, but there is no incremental land cost for site two or three. We captured that already in Venetian land concession rate.
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
(inaudible) that cost, but sites two and three are already been captured in The Venetian, it does include land cost for sites five or six…
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
What else they are doing? It's a good point something there is to talk about. Well, nothing (inaudible) Far East contributed to our cost of land, which we have been building for us. So, we are either going to get credit on what the builders are going to give us some money.
CS
Celeste Brown - Morgan Stanley
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
And in terms of the land cost, its not been clarified whether the government: what you'll pay? Or: are you kind of comfortable with what you are going to pay on the rest of the sites there?
BS
Brad Stone
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
Land cost, remember, you have to understand what happens in Asia. Land cost is based on the square feet you build on the building. So it is imputed into cost of building. So, you don't really buy land, you buy the right to build the square footage you are going build. So your costs are based on the category of build space time is formula, that's way that it works. So land costs are then computed by what the final approval and the final development of the building is. While we're at it, because this premium thing is so confusing, our land cost things are computed, plus I noticed in Europe report, you're talking about selling of malls there. Understand that the Cotai Strip, any mall built on a Cotai Strip for example, can be sold, can be sold at almost anytime because there is no prohibition against malls. When they pay an additional premium, only difference between the mall in static state and the time which it sold, because you have to pay additional premium based on whatever the profit is of a mall itself. So malls are an entirely different category then service departments or condominiums. The Cotai Strip buy its approval process by the government, anything on the Cotai Strip cannot sell a strata title. That strata title only relates to residences, because residences are allowed on the Cotai Strip. So malls can be disposed out, malls are then revalued at the time of the sale and a higher lands premium is paid for all mall and they are transferable really pretty well at any time. The regime relating to the service departments, we are still working on in terms of developing a regime where long-term leases or rights to use may be sold in a different form than perhaps an individual title like a condominium. But I just wanted to clarify the point about the mall itself.
CS
Celeste Brown - Morgan Stanley
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
That's really helpful. Hard to get straight info out of Macao sometimes. And then Bill you mentioned the 60-20-20 if I did miss here you on the commission structure?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Yeah, it's sharing of risk, 60-20-20 or whatever we want to.
CS
Celeste Brown - Morgan Stanley
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
Okay. Is it equivalent to what your competitor uses, I guess they call it the 40-40-20, U.S. competitor?
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
120%, that's right 40-20-20.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
That's all the same thing that junket reps gets 40 ferry. However, the rest is allocated, at the relevant we get 60.
CS
Celeste Brown - Morgan Stanley
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
And then Sheldon, it sounded like based on you comments about, is on selling early that it's given the choice you wouldn't sell the Palazzo mall, pre-sell Palazzo mall again and you wouldn't be willing to sell your Macao malls until they really prove themselves to get the highest prices. Is that a fair assessment?
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
No, well, first of all, not a fair assessment, it will just. Let met clarify that, it looks like it's oblivious, but the Palazzo mall we had a 30 months true up, that means that we are not selling. The final price isn't arrived at until 30 months from the time we transfer the first day we transfer. So we've already got the future built into that deal. And so as far as what you are asking about Palazzo, the bottom line is that I don't think I would pre-sell any more malls because it's not a question where we put the mall whether or not it's going to succeed, it's only a question of if there's a ramp up time how long will the ramp up time be, three months, six months or would, because in our mind there's no issue. We've already proven it with the Venetian. The Venetian is the Asia's first integrated resort. Anywhere else in the world we build an integrated resort, it's going to be the first in that part of the world, whether we do it in South America, we do it in India, we do it in Europe, we do it in Timbuktu, it's going to be the first and only integrated resort and people are going to come to it because human beings are human beings. Every adult wants to be entertained and there's enough a lot of people around the world that would like to go to Las Vegas but can't to Vegas because of the distance to travel and why should they do all that if we bring the mountain to the customers, no doubt in our mind that the mall is going to succeed and whatever we do is going to succeed. And if you can see that I mean if it can't be seen by anybody out of The Venetian Macao I guess we'll just have to wait a little more, it's already happening. Our December run rate is in excess of what's some analysts have projected. $60 million, $61 million, $62 million EBITDA run rate for the month of December is satisfactory run rate as far as the projection's evolving analysts are concerned and not all pistons are firing at the same time as each of the pistons get fine tune and they all fire at the same time like an 8 to 12 (inaudible) than we believe that the cash flow coming out of that will be, it will be an opportunity maximized.
CS
Celeste Brown - Morgan Stanley
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
Thank you.
SA
Sheldon Adelson
Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please proceed
You are welcome.
OP
Operator
Operator
This concludes the Q&A session for today. I will now turn the call back over to Bill Weidner for final remarks.
BW
Bill Weidner
Management
Well, thank you again for listening to our conference call. I mean, obviously, we are very excited about what's going on and about the trends that we see not only in terms of what happening at the Venetian Macao, what's happening in our building here in Las Vegas and what will be happening to Macao, as we finish more critical mass on the Cotai Strip. As the ferry operations ramp up, as more airplanes fly into Macao, there's nothing but a terrific upside in that marketplace. And as we begin to see our building coming out of Singapore, and as we recognize the value of additional capacity in that marketplace, we're very bullish about the future. So, thank you again for listening to our conference call. We look forward to talking to you again and more importantly we look forward to talking to you on Monday to go through a lot more details, lot more numbers, so we can get a better hand on exactly how this thing is going and the timing of the process of ramping up into the future. Thanks again for listening to our conference call. We look forward to talking to you again. Have a good day.